Topic: Help - reaction to vaccine (Read 13386 times)

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #47 on:** March 22, 2008, 19:37:02 PM »

They should be OK then.

HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val) · « **Reply #46 on:** March 22, 2008, 19:07:18 PM »

Desley, I do keep my both of my cats indoors and only let them out into my back garden when I am with them. I have not got it completely cat proofed yet though but I do plan on cat proofing by summertime. Right now they just turned 6 months old, and so far my cats have not shown any interest in trying to escape the boundaries but I know they will as they get older. I have lived in my house for 17 years and I have only seen a stray cat come into my garden twice in all those years, so I don't think there are many cats here in my area that roam free.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #45 on:** March 22, 2008, 09:15:47 AM »

If he is indoor only, or only access to a catproofed garden, then he should be fine, as FeLV is only spread through contact with infected cats. Although coming into contact doesnt' mean they will get it anyway, cats can actually shake off FeLV.

HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val) · « **Reply #44 on:** March 21, 2008, 19:51:50 PM »

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on March 16, 2008, 18:39:11 PM

Glad your vet was helpful, and I personally wouldnt give them the FeLV vaccine again.

Yes Desley, I believe you are very right about that! I just hope that FeLV is a vaccine that my sweet Hunter can do without and live a long happy healthy life?

Thanks again everyone for being so helpful!

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #43 on:** March 16, 2008, 18:39:11 PM »

Glad your vet was helpful, and I personally wouldnt give them the FeLV vaccine again.

HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val) · « **Reply #42 on:** March 16, 2008, 03:02:36 AM »

Well, I did take both Hunter and Harley in to see my vet this last week. I wanted to get them checked again for any signs of ringworm, which was negative, plus talk it over about getting the second booster of FIP nasal drops vaccine. My vet assured me that he felt it was the FeLV that was the problem with Hunter getting such a severe adverse reaction and not the FIP. So it was with his recommendation that I continue to give the FIP booster to give my kittens protection, so I went forward with the vaccine. I watched Hunter and Harley very closely afterwards and both kittens seemed to have no adverse reaction at all and did just fine.

So next year when it is time for the annual FeLV vaccine, that is when I will have to rethink giving it as I now know that is the one that caused my kittens to become so sick, especially Hunter.

Thanks everyone for all your input, as this was not an easy decision for me to make.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #41 on:** March 06, 2008, 08:18:15 AM »

Do talk things over with your vet, but dont let them push you into something you are not happy with, as they might want you to do them for financial reasons - I personally think it would be the FIP rather than the FeLV, as very few vets in the US will use it, and it isn't licenced in the UK, but it could also have been a combination of the two. Good luck with them.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #40 on:** March 06, 2008, 00:39:19 AM »

Oh thank you

You are so kind

HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val) · « **Reply #39 on:** March 05, 2008, 22:15:57 PM »

Thanks Millys Mum & Gill.

Aw Gill, I think you are smart too, after all, you are admin here so what would Purrs be without YOU?

Gosh, I never thought making this decision would be so difficult for me. Like you said Millys Mum, in all fairness I should talk it over with my vet as well. At least now I will feel I know a little bit of what I'm talking about! I hope! lol

Thanks again, and if any other thoughts on this come up, PLEASE post them as I will be taking the kittens in for their check up on Friday by then I need to have reached my decision.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #38 on:** March 05, 2008, 20:51:24 PM »

There are some very knowledgeable people on here

I cant advise about this cos I am not one LOL, except to say that FIP always kills. It has two forms wet and dry, one kills quicker but both are terrible.

Its the one set of intitials that every cat owner dreads to hear or see cos its always going to be bad news.

Good luck with your decision and a cat prrof garden ould be a great place for them

Millys Mum · « **Reply #37 on:** March 05, 2008, 20:39:38 PM »

Yep if he doesnt have the 2nd part of the fip vax it would invalidate the first but from what iv read unless you early wean and isolate kittens the vaccine is useless so your not really losing anything if that makes sense.

If i was going to alter his next vaxs i would miss the fip and felv parts out. Just my opinion tho so do see what your vet thinks!

As your going to be having a cat proofed garden the risk of exposure to felv is going to be even less. Its not a virus that survives well outside of the body, you need close contact with an infected cat.

HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val) · « **Reply #36 on:** March 05, 2008, 20:12:23 PM »

Quote from: Millys Mum on March 05, 2008, 12:01:51 PM

Im glad Hunter is ok now, im sure they will love a cat proofed garden to mooch around in. I wouldnt reccomend hanging toys up tho as iv heard of cats strangling them selves and catching a leg that has had the same effect as a snare would

VERY good point! I did not even think of that.

Your answer to the FIP Vaccine is extremely knowledgeable! You are one smart lady! I have been reading everything I can find and all the points you made all seem to be where I am heading with my decision. Thank you for letting me know that the felv is what caused the adverse reaction, I thought so too from what you all have said. So then , even though Hunter has already had one dose of the FIP, then you would recommend he NOT get the booster? Sorry for being so undecided here, I just want to do what is best for my kitten and I really don't understand all these vaccines. If I don't get him the booster, then would that make the first dose invalid or ineffective?

Millys Mum · « **Reply #35 on:** March 05, 2008, 12:01:51 PM »

Your boys will probably already been exposed to fcov (the virus that mutates into fip) therefore the vaccine wouldnt be much use.
I would put my money on the felv vaccine causing his bad reaction.

Quote

We need to research whether Feliway would help prevent FIP in these kittens, but it certainly won't do them any harm.

Feliway is a synthetic cat pheremone that helps to prevent stress. Stress is believed to be a big trigger in causing a cat infected with fcov to mutate the virus into fip.

Quote

I wonder though, just how common is this virus and does it affect a great deal of cats or is it rather a rare occurrence?

Fcov is a very common virus, however most cats will encounter fcov, fight it and build immunity. There are some cats who dont shrug the virus and continually shed fcov. These cats are at higher risk of fip.
Fip itself is not too common, but because the symptoms match those of many many illnesses vets often mention it so people hear more and more about it.

Iv lost a cat to fip and it was a horrible experience but i still wouldnt use the vaccine on my remaining cats.

Im glad Hunter is ok now, im sure they will love a cat proofed garden to mooch around in. I wouldnt reccomend hanging toys up tho as iv heard of cats strangling them selves and catching a leg that has had the same effect as a snare would

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #34 on:** March 05, 2008, 07:53:36 AM »

Very tricky, I use an American forum, and the FIP vaccine isn't widely used due to issues with its effectiveness, and concern about it causing kittens to develop FIP. I would be tempted to talk to the vet and say you are very concerned due to the reaction,and as they were all done in one go, you have no way of knowing which it was.

HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val) · « **Reply #33 on:** March 05, 2008, 00:32:49 AM »

Gillian,
Thank you very much for the great idea on cat proofing my garden! Now all I need to do is enlist my son's labor and I think I've got a winner!

Also thank you for the link about FIP. I quickly read through it but I am going to go back and re-read it as I am still not sure I am understanding FIP.
The link did say however that once a cat does begin to show actual signs of being infected with this virus, that it is alway fatal. There is no known cure or treatment.
It then went on to say: We need to research whether Feliway would help prevent FIP in these kittens, but it certainly won't do them any harm. Because of this alone, then since my kittens already had the first FIP dosages, then it seems to me that I must go ahead and have the booster given. Would you agree or disagree?

My other main concerned is that I want to make sure that this FIP is NOT what caused Hunter's adverse reaction, as that was pretty intense to me. I don't want to put him through that if there is a chance it would cause him death. At first glance, when I read the link you provided, I did not see any warnings that death could occur if given but only if the virus is contracted, that it is fatal. I wonder though, just how common is this virus and does it affect a great deal of cats or is it rather a rare occurrence?

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #32 on:** March 04, 2008, 23:38:32 PM »

Quote from: HunterHarleyMum on March 04, 2008, 23:18:26 PM

Well, it is time this week that my kittens Hunter and Harley get their booster for FIP Vaccine. I believe that is the one that is given by drops in their nostrils. As you all know, 3 weeks ago both kittens had their first FIP Vaccine as well as their 2nd FVRCP-P-Fel Vaccine (Annual).
Once again I am asking for your thoughts and views about getting Hunter and Harley their FIP Vaccine booster?

Also, Hunter and Harley will be 6 months old this month on the 17th, and I have begun to let Hunter and Harley out into my back garden for the last two weeks now. They are not allowed to leave my garden and are under my watchful eye, however my garden is not cat proofed as yet and I'm not sure how to go about making it so. Thank you guys for any input you may have to give to me. I do appreciate it very much.

The FIP vaccine is only worth giving to cats that havent been exposed to FCOV - this is taken from Dr Addie's site (recognized expert on FIP): 'Primucell, made by Pfizer, is the only commercially available FIP vaccine in the world. Primucell is a temperature-sensitive mutant feline coronavirus which is instilled intra-nasally and gives rise to local IgA immunity and cell-mediated immunity. Primucell prevents FIP in 50-75% of cats who would have otherwise developed it, but is ineffective in cats previously exposed to FCoV. Thus, in households where FCoV is endemic (most cat breeder's households) Primucell has to be used in kittens which have already undergone the special management procedure known as early weaning and isolation, so that they are FCoV free when vaccinated'. http://www.dr-addie.com/PreventionS3.htm

Can you extend your fencing by adding mesh on top fixed to brackets at an angle to act as an overhang so that they can't actually climb out of the garden? Like this

HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val) · « **Reply #31 on:** March 04, 2008, 23:18:26 PM »

Hi everyone,

Well, it is time this week that my kittens Hunter and Harley get their booster for FIP Vaccine. I believe that is the one that is given by drops in their nostrils. As you all know, 3 weeks ago both kittens had their first FIP Vaccine as well as their 2nd FVRCP-P-Fel Vaccine (Annual). All of these were given at the same time and Hunter had a very bad adverse reaction to these vaccines that lasted for 3 days. It really took him about 6 days before he was back to acting like his old self again. It was pretty scary to me.
I now know, because of the great advice and help you all gave me, that Hunter's adverse reaction could have been avoided if administered spread out over a period of time and not given in one lump sum. I have not owned cats in 30+ years and back then we did not give vaccines to cats. Things have changed for the better care of cats now and I want to do my best to give these two kittens a wonderful life.

Once again I am asking for your thoughts and views about getting Hunter and Harley their FIP Vaccine booster? If I understand correctly by what many of you said, it was the FVRCP-P-Fel Vaccine that in all likelyhood caused my Hunter to become so very ill? I had an appointment for today that I canceled as I have not made my decision as to this FIP is necessary. I must admit though that I have not discussed it yet any futher with my vet, although I do plan to, but I just wanted to get some futher information and knowledge to support what ever my decision will be. I think if I only go with what the vet thinks is best without my doing any research I just would not feel comfortable as it would be his decision and not mine.

Also, Hunter and Harley will be 6 months old this month on the 17th, and I have begun to let Hunter and Harley out into my back garden for the last two weeks now. They are not allowed to leave my garden and are under my watchful eye, however my garden is not cat proofed as yet and I'm not sure how to go about making it so. I do not want them to become free roaming cats as I am afraid that they would get hurt. I read somewhere in this forum that if you make your garden cat friendly, with all the right plants and hang cat toys and things of interest to the cat, that they will be less likely to want to roam, is this true? So far they have not shown any interest in leaving the fenced in area of the garden, and they are really enjoying themselves chasing bugs and lizards and such. They are so fun to watch to, I must admit I do enjoy watching them "be cats" and hunting and tracking their prey.

They love to play in my guinea pigs pigloos when the piggy's are not using them. lol

Thank you guys for any input you may have to give to me. I do appreciate it very much.

Ela · « **Reply #30 on:** February 18, 2008, 07:32:09 AM »

I do hope the little ones have by now recovered. In the UK the FeLV injection is often given towards the back end. I would also say that I hear of FeLV less and less since more people and many rescues are having their cats injected against it. As with most things in life there is a risk but that risk is far outweighed by the lives the injections can save.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #29 on:** February 18, 2008, 00:16:07 AM »

I have a friend in California but its much further north than you

HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val) · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2008, 09:04:32 AM »

Maddiesmum, Thank you for the warm welcome! I am very glad to be here, as I am sure being a new kitty mum , I will need all the good advice I can get!

Maddiesmum · « **Reply #27 on:** February 17, 2008, 06:39:11 AM »

Hello Val and welcome to Purrs. You will find so many lovely helpful people here, everyone is so kind and supportive. Your kittens are absolutely beautiful and I am sorry to learn they have had so many problems already in their little lives. Hopefully things will look up for them now and you will all have many many happy and healthy years together.

HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val) · « **Reply #26 on:** February 17, 2008, 04:38:08 AM »

Gill, thank you! I must admit, I think they are gorgeous too! Good point about the rescue center giving your kitten his first jab. Mine also had their first jab at the rescue center too. I wonder if they keep records as to the kittens reactions? I did notify them that both kitten became so very sick just days after I got them home. They had tapeworms, URI virus & a bad infection of ringworm fungus, and now this adverse reaction to the vaccine. I wanted to let them know about the ringworm more than any else, since it was such a nigtmare to get rid of, hopefully so they could start cleaning everything with bleach at the center. Oh my my, all these problems and that is just since December 7th! Fingers crossed that there will be no more health issues for the rest of their lives!
Would that be asking to much? lol

Yvonne, So you have a friend in Florida huh? San Diego California, where I live is on the opposite coast of the United States. Both are the best states for great sunny weather. I suppose I should make a thread to introduce myself in the "newbie" thread, huh? Congratulations on your new kitten additions to your family. Parrot and Cody are just two more LUCKY cats to have found a good home! BTW, I love the name Parrot for a cat! I would never have thought of that for a name....I wonder if there might be a parrot out there some where named Kitty?

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2008, 23:03:05 PM »

What gorgeous furballs

I am so pleased they have recovered and I dont know how Misa was with the first jab cos he was still at the rescue centre but it was the second one that I saw him after and he was so ill. Have to think he was ill with the first one too.

I would definately speak to the vet to see if he can maybe give the leukaemia one seperately, cos appartently it doesnt seem to cause the ame problems then.

Welcome to Purrs too

Yvonne · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2008, 11:45:54 AM »

Hi Val - good to hear from you, it must be very early in the morning over there - I bet my friends from Florida are not out of bed yet.

Homer is a big boy now but his yearly injection must be due probably at the end of the summer. In fact we went to our local SPCA last week and brought home another two kittens, Parrot and Cody, they have already had their injections - thankfully.

HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val) · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2008, 11:34:59 AM »

Thank you Yvonne! I am glad to be here! That way fourfurballs can get some relief from my constantly needing her help. She has been so wonderful and patient with all my questions demanding some answers!

Thanks for the link, I was just over in your thread. Looks like our kittens had similar adverse reactions to their vaccines. How is your kitten now?

Oh my gosh, Hunter was so sickly and awful for two full days! Hunter is still not all the way back to his old self, but doing so much better. I have read that recovery from this, can take about 5 to 7 days? I really think it made all the difference when I started giving him syringes of fluids. I had no choice but to force him to take the fluids because he would not eat or drink. He would not even get up to use his litter box. I carried him to the litter box so he could use it on the second day, and he pee pee for so long, He was still to sickly to jump back out, so I had to carry hm back to his bed. I stayed on the couch the second night so I could keep putting the fluids in him all night long.

I still can't believe just how much these two kittens have been through in their short lives so far. They are turning my hair gray just like their's from causing me all the worrying.

Yvonne · « **Reply #22 on:** February 16, 2008, 11:07:57 AM »

Val and

to Purrs

Harley and Hunter are beautiful a real credit to you

I would discuss the booster vaccine with your Vet. My kitten Homer suffered very badly from the first vaccine but was ok with the second injection as you will see if you read my thread that had the link attached.

Anyway you have two weeks to make your mind up

Good luck

HaneyHarperIndyMum (Val) · « **Reply #21 on:** February 16, 2008, 10:58:00 AM »

Hello everyone!

Val here! Thank you all so very much for your great advice. Hunter is doing so much better now and is almost back to his silly little playful self. I must say though, he really gave me a good scare with that adverse reaction he had to his vaccine. I am a new kitten owner and learning things as I go along, with the help of fourfurballs of course.

I adopted these two kittens, Hunter and Harley, this last December from the Helen Woodward Rescue Center here in San Diego California. The kittens had been transfered in from a different rescue center in another state, Arizona.

Both Hunter and Harley have been sickly just two days after I adopted them. In just the short amount of time I have had them, they became so sick with URI virus that took nearly 3 weeks to get them over that and no sooner were they well, that they then came down with a nasty ringworm fungus that I have been battling for 6 weeks. The ringworm was a nightmare and all that goes with it! When I took the kittens back to the vet's for the 3rd time in regards to their ringworm for a recheck, I finally got a good report as the vet did not find any signs of ringworm being present. Yippee! That sure felt good to hear! I finally felt for the first time that I was now going to get to enjoy these two sweet little kittens.

They were finally healthy, and I wanted to make sure that they stayed that way. It was time for the vaccines, so Dr. Gill administered them to both Hunter and Harley.

By the time I got back to my home, 5 minutes away, I could already see that the kittens were not doing well. As the day turned in to the evening, I became very concerned and worried that something was wrong. Clearly these kittens were having an adverse reaction to the vaccines. I just did not know how bad it would get for poor Hunter, who was suffering the worse.

I contacted fourfurballs for advice since it was now after hours and the vet's office was closed. I asked her to PLEASE make a thread about my kittens on her cat forum, as I needed some advice.

Thank you all so much for helping me.....I really appreciated being able to read your posts. I must admit, I now have mixed feelings about giving vaccines. I was feeling a bit guilty for Hunter being so sick, and feeling a bit guilty that I had not taken the time to read up on vaccines and the dangers that some cats experience.

Here is a picture of Hunter, and he says THANK YOU TOO!

Here is a picture of Hunter & Harley just days after I adopted them. You can see how much Hunter has grown! (Harley too)

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2008, 21:27:30 PM »

My vet said he would not give this vaccine to cats over 8 yrs cos there was no point cos of the immunity they would have by then.

And this is the same vet that said wanted Misa to have it cos he was only 5 years old and would not agree that Misa had a reaction. Cos he agreed with what the Usa vet said in this case.

I suspect that Charlie if he has been living outside would have immunity.

I suspect that your insurance would not be invalid for not having this particular jab unless he developed an illness relating to him not having it. Did that make sense LOL

Maddiesmum · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2008, 20:02:19 PM »

I mentioned the natural immunity to FELV to Charlie;'s new vet and he said it is rubbish. I don';t know what to think because our old vet told us that they do build up immunity! Also his insurance against it is invalid if he is not vaccinated.

Millys Mum · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2008, 17:41:59 PM »

FIP vaccine waste of money as they wont have been barrier nursed as kittens to prevent fcov infection, save the money and buy them a roast chicken!

Felv vaccine gives the same level of protection as natural immunity so they can still be outdoor cats without this vaccine.
IMO better to risk felv than to die at 18months from an allergic reaction to a booster

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #17 on:** February 15, 2008, 12:31:46 PM »

It will be great to see her on Purrs

Yvonne · « **Reply #16 on:** February 15, 2008, 11:16:00 AM »

Let me try again - I typed a long reply and all I managed to post was a load of old dam smileys!!! how infuriating.

I have had a bit of experience with the routine kitten injection fevaxyn pentofel, please see my old post:

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,6283.0.html

Wont go into detail in case I lose it - good luck (no smileys)

Yvonne · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2008, 11:01:27 AM »

Dawn (DiddyDawn) · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2008, 10:20:18 AM »

Fantastic news and look we forward to meeting Val

sixfurballs · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2008, 09:50:04 AM »

Just a little update to let you know that Harley is fine and Hunter (who had the worst of the reaction) woke Val up by climbing over her and licking her face so he is on the move again. He is perking up and seems to be getting over the reaction. This latest bout has convinced her to join Purrs herself so am sure she will be along soon.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2008, 15:02:17 PM »

Quote from: fourfurballs on February 14, 2008, 08:19:04 AM

If he can't have vaccines again that means he will have to be an indoors cat won't it? Val had still not decided whether to let them out so this may take the decision out of her hands.

The kittens can still go outside, maybe in an enclosed garden if thats possible? Here in the UK you can ask to have the vacs as separate jabs, you don't have to have combined jab, which as Des mentioned, could be the problem - too many things in one go.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2008, 11:54:56 AM »

The cancer specialists here also recommend vaccinating rabies and FeLV in the leg but not many vets here have experience of doing it so they can make quite a meal of it. But they say anywhere where a lump can be removed should it grow - def not between the shoulder blades as that is a nightmare spot for surgery.

I've had depression in young cats the first time they got FeLV vaccine but it only lasted 2- 3 days and didn't sound as severe. The local (painful) reaction is to the aluminium adjuvant that makes the vaccine 'take' in the cat's immune system. I thought they had licenced non adjuvanted vaccines in America now for safety reasons (maybe only rabies ones?). Such a strong reaction would make me rush back to the vet and keep at him. I hope it works out ok for your friend's kitten.
I would keep the kittens indoors if possible, then there are fewer vaccines that they need anyhow. If they've had a bad reaction to one, I wouldn't give it again. FeLV and rabies tend to produce the worst reactions.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2008, 08:24:00 AM »

Vets in the US do certain vaccines in the leg (normally rabies) as they have higher incidences of vaccine-related sarcoma due to the antigens, and it means if it is an issue, the lumps can be removed. There is an FIP vaccine in the US, but it isn't widely used due ot the side effects (it can cause FIP) - I would personally be recommending my friend didn't get the booster for that. I also suspect it might have been due to being vaccinated for so many things in one go.

sixfurballs · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2008, 08:19:04 AM »

Thank you all so much from myself and Val, she was glad of so many responses. She did speak to her vet again with another update on the boys and was told to syringe feed him to keep fluids up and if got any worse over night to take him in immediately and if no improvement by morning call again. I haven't spoken to her yet this morning but will let you know how it turns out.

If he can't have vaccines again that means he will have to be an indoors cat won't it? Val had still not decided whether to let them out so this may take the decision out of her hands.

Dawn (DiddyDawn) · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2008, 23:37:22 PM »

Quote from: Gill (sneakiefeline) on February 13, 2008, 23:36:02 PM

I didnt know there was a vacine for FIP?

There is but it's not licensed for use in the UK.

Author Topic: Help - reaction to vaccine (Read 13386 times)