Transplants for pets - what are your opinions?

[Desley (booktigger)]

I dont think it is a good way of helping the donor cat personally - what if the two cats dont get on with each other? Or, as is the case with some people, they have a restriction on pets?

[blackcat]

Well, two cats with a good kidney each actualy. But a good (ish) way of ensuring that the cat from whom it is harvested is not just thrown on the waste heap I guess. Though some people would promise the world for their little cuddly bunny and have no intention of providing long-term care for the donor cat - after all, what are they going to do, take the kidney back??

[JackSpratt]

I don't think I agree with it. Psychologically, it's not as though either animal will understand what's happening. I guess they might have some instinctual awareness, but it's not really enough for the gruelling recovery they'd endure.  Although I hope I'm never in the position to have to even consider it to be honest, and I can understand why people do.

[Desley (booktigger)]

WEll, just found this from last year - sounds a bit odd. Thank you - I have looked into a transplant. Yes, kidney transplants are a fortune - $23,000 for just one kidney and you have to keep the donar cat. So in the end, you have two cats with only one good kidney.

[Desley (booktigger)]

I am against this, although as I only adopt oldies, it probably wouldnt be an option anyway. I would also wonder about where the donors would come from, I doubt they would be stolen pets, as the vets would need an audit trail, so they would probably be bred specifically for it, as they wouldnt' have any health guarantees with stray cats, and if they have to 'rely' on live animals, then I should imagine it will have the same issues as human transplants - not enough of them, and not always at the right time. And T has some good points about us helping out another needy cat if we have to lose a much loved pet.
As an aside, on the American forum I go on, there is someone who has a young cat with kidney stones, and he has been told a transplant is out of the question, so I dont think it is commonly done over there, in fact, it isn't something I have heard mentioned, but shall edit post if I find out to the contrary.

[Stuart]

I can Honestly say I would Be against this, Firstly there would be all the risks associated with the operation
and aftercare, obviously Cat would have to have life long medication in order to Try and prevent rejection
of transplant, and of course what has already been mentioned, purposefully bred or people's beloved pet's
being stolen, for the sole purpose of being used as unwilling doners
which is totally unacceptable !!!

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I'm not sure how I would feel about this really but I think I would be against.  My worry with donor animals is how they would obtain them, would they abuse the stray population or have animals bred specifically for this purpose, obtain animals from rescues etc........I think this would be highly likely.  I know most of us on here would do virtually anything for their animals to live but sometimes I think this is more for ourselves than the actual animal concerned.  One of my dogs had a severe heart problem and I was told I could possibly have an op done on her but she may not pull through and there would have been months recovery and she would more than likely be in pain, I decided against it and just let her enjoy life whilst she had it and when the time came, she was pts and went peacefully.  I know modern medicine can be a wonderful thing but I also feel that some owners disregard how the animal would feel and just put them through the ops regardless when really the animal should be put out their misery.  I learnt my lesson on Little Bob and I swore blind I would never let an animal go through what he went through ever again and I hope I have kept to my word.

[Roz]

Thanks for responding everyone.

I'm on the fence like some of you.  For such operations to become routine over here, the donor system would have to be very regulated.  Like all of you I would be horrified at the thought of using stray cats. 

While on the subject of ethics however, I am always amazed at how the general public finds the idea of exploiting one animal unthinkable while not turning a hair at the mass slaughter of farm animals every minute of every day for the meat market.  Has anyone consulted them about their rights? Please don't think I'm being disagreeable here, it's just that I   can't see the difference.  But it would seem that most people can..

However, back to the transplant issue...if it meant keeping a beloved pet alive and well for a good few years longer, I'm not exactly sure what I would choose to do...

If the prognosis pointed to the likelihood of a full recovery and good quality of life, I think I would be very tempted...but not at the expense of a live animal.  Only if the organs were donated from an animal that had recently died, would I countenance such a procedure.

I think it will become an option nevertheless within the next few years.

Best wishes,

Roz

[Teresa Pawcats]

As awful as this sounds,the loss of a much loved pet often leads to a good home for a couple of stray kittens who might otherwise have been P.T.S.
It is one thing to fight to save a life with quality,it is another to prolong a life.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Advances in veterinary medicine great, lets stop FIP and try to prevent cancer and degenerative diseases thhat come with age.

But I do not agree with transplants because it would just bring out the worst in people I think. Organ theft and missing animals would start to become the norm and no cat would be safe........shudder.

I agree with other sentimants expressed and as something like CRF tends to affect older cats then taking a kidney from a younger animal would then cause them a problem probably later in life.

I dont like the sound of this at all and the money some would make would be just sick, and all at the expense of another animal 

[Tiggy's Mum]

My main concern woule be that if transplants became common practise whether defenceless strays would be stolen for their organs, really doesn't bare thinking about but I can see it happening 

As to whether I would choose a transplant for one of my animals, very hard to say unless you are in that situation but I certainly wouldn't rule out the notion from the offset 

[blackcat]

Gwen, if she was suffering it was not you you were saving - it was her. Don't feel guilty for doing the right thing

[Gwen]

I have never thaught about this before,to be honest I didn't know transplants in dogs/cats were available or I would of definatly considered it for our Samoyed who developed cancer in her kidney,but even then I doubt I would of gone ahead,she was 13,she would of had to get over the operation etc and who knows the cancer might have spread to other organs.  I must say though I do feel guilty about putting her down,we got told she can cancer on te thursday by the monday she wasnt walking properly and OH half said "keep her going for another few days"  I just couldn't bare to see her falling etc,it just wasn't her,but I do feel guilty that I put her down to save me seeing her suffering

[unseeliechylde]

That's a good point, Milly's Mum. I suspect that many transplants would be about prolonging the life of already elderly cats, and I would strongly disagree with this. The only possible justification I can see, is for corrective surgery in younger animals, eg. for malformed heart valves / heart murmurs, etc - but then, corrective surgery for minor defects in young animals is of course not the same as organ transplant (though I have heard of heart valve replacements, but these tend to be synthetic, not from donors).
I would add that most animal behaviour experts differentiate between pain and distress - pain is physical discomfort, and as animals do not intellectualise or emotionalise physical pain like humans, they can actually tolerate it better than we can (which is not to say we shouldn't do everything in our power to prevent them experiencing pain), however, animals are less able to cope with distress - traumatising experiences, fear, loss of control, entrapment, persecution, abuse, confinement etc - relative to humans.
We should be very careful about how we evaluate pain or physical discomfort in quality of life - even humans do not rate pain in the same way - many terminal patients would rather experience pain and a clear mind than the frightening disorientation and lack of control caused by some opiates. This clearly illustrates that while discomfort may be associated with distress in some cases, distress is more complex than physical discomfort, and can occur in the absence of pain. Conversley, physical discomfort can occur without causing distress. If this level of complexity is evident in cats, dogs, ferrrets and humans, we must be very cautious about how we assess and interpret "quality of life", both in humans, and in animals.
That being said, I would still be against transplants in older animals, but can, possibly, see the benefit for the correction of congenital problems in young animals.

[Teresa Pawcats]

Against The more veterinary medicine and science progress,the bigger the number of unwanted cats.

[Millys Mum]

Im against and agree with Christines points.
Normally its older animals who would need the transplant and the chances of them getting any decent amount of time after recovery would probably be low.

I also notice that insurance policies exclude transplant costs.

[unseeliechylde]

I'm kind of on the fence - however, given the experimental nature of these treatments, and the lack of good-quality information about long term prognosis, quality of life, etc. I  would not go for it as things stand to date.
I am in favour of improvements in vetinary medicine, but think that this is something that needs to be looked at in more detail, and I suspect my opinion would vary on a case-by-case basis.
In essence, to me it comes down to the obvious factors: Will the treatment enable the animal to have a quality of life comparable to that of a healthy cat? How long would recovery be, and what are the long term implications for the animals lifestyle (eg immunosuppression etc)? Will the treatment result in significant welfare and quality of life improvement both in the medium and long term? What are the ethical considerations with regards donor organs - where have they come from, what sort of consent is involved etc?
As things stand at present, I suspect that current surgical advances in vetinary medicine could not give the sort of answers to these issues that would persuade me. However, if things got to a stage where procedures were brief, relatively non-invasive (eg keyhole surgery etc), involving very short recovery, minimal dependance on immunosuppression etc, then perhaps I would be more positive about transplants, but at this stage I would say no.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

I'm against it, I'm afraid. Prolonging life in humans is justified as we know what's happening to us and need to make plans for after we are gone. All our furbabes are aware of is being in pain or not. I'm sure they have no idea how old they are and don't care if they get another 5 years or 5 weeks, so long as the remaining time is quality time.

I've had to bite my tongue and watch friends and relatives keep sick and unhappy animals going beyond their natural time. One of the responsibilities we accept when we adopt an animal is having the courage to say enough is enough. 

[Christine (Blip)]

This thought has only just occurred to me but, for those interested in the ethics of this sort of thing, I recommend Kazuo Ishiguros novel "Never Let Me Go".

[Angiew]

I remember seeing a documentary a few years ago about this being done in the states where rescue animals were used as donors and adopted as a reward.
So with my rescue head on, would I let one of my foster cats be homed if this was going to happen to it? - Now that is a definate NO. God forbid that thats something we would have to put on adoption forms.

[berties mum]

Exactly what I was going to say, Christine.  There have been a couple of examples on these boards of people feeling guilty for years about not having their cat PTS at the earliest opportunity and, in their mind, prolonging their suffering.  If a transplant op was available, I know I would end up accepting it and feeling guilty if the cat didn't make a full recovery afterwards.

[Christine (Blip)]

I am all for embracing the latest advances in veterinary science but I would not subject any animal to transplant surgery because I am sure I would be doing it for my own benefit and not that of the patient.  It would be such a traumatic procedure with such long-term discomfort afterwards.

I would also worry about the experimental aspect of such procedures and the provenance of the "donated" organs.

 

[Angiew]

I think I'm on the against side.
I agree with BC.
All animals (including humans) have a natural life span and I think we are all too scared of death. Its the living thats important, enjoy what you have while you have it and I think thats something cats manage to do in spades - especially the spoilt owned adored moggys on this forum!

I'm all for pain management and easy cures but a big op followed by goodness knows what sort of daily meds?

[blackcat]

I too am on the fence. I think that sometimes we make choices for our pets that are based more on our own understanding of the positive benefits that follow from prolonged treatment, rather than an understanding of the way in which that treatment impacts on our pets, whose understanding is in the 'now'. So if the treatment required long-term pain, or long-term vigourous medical intervention I think I would decide against it. I would however be more than happy to volunteer organs for the treatment should one of mine be so unfortunate as to pass early and with good organs suitable for the purpose. Though I have to say I can not think of terribly many circumstances where this might occur. I would also worry about the source of replacement organs and whether this might open up some nasty possibilities. I worry about the ethics of some of the advances in human transplant technology as it is.

[Mark]

I discussed this with my partner when Clapton was first diagnosed with CRF. He said that no way on earth would he subject one of our cats to that kind of surgery with a long recovery, although the money side didn't come into it. I am on the fence here. I sort of agree but at the same time, if I could be assured a cat could be made comfortable and wouldn't have to suffer, I would want to try it if there were no other serious health problems.

I looked into transplants here and I don't think there is anywhere that does it - I'm sure the nearest place is in Switzerland unless things have changed in the last year.


Edit - I have just been googling and it seems animal welfare groups are against it because they fear strays will be used as donors. Maybe t's not possible to use a kidney from a dead animal?

I also saw some info that said the op can be done in London and Edinburgh now, although not sure where.

http://www-old.prs.heacademy.ac.uk/documents/case_studies/renal_transplant_in_cats.html

[Roz]

Hi everyone,

Hope you all enjoyed a very happy Chrimbo. 

Sadly, it was a very tragic occasion for Julie, a very good friend of mine who is also totally blind, bless her.  She lost her dear little Siamese, Beauty, (a former rescue) from kidney failure on 27th December.  Beauty was absolutely devoted to Julie, never letting her out of her sight and could be seen on her shoulder wherever she went....such a loss, and just 10 years old.  Heartbreaking.

But it made me think about kidney transplants for cats...which is certainly carried out in the States...(I am not sure about this but I rather think that over there a lot of the donor cats are strays and the owner of the sick cat is expected to take care of both cats once the operation has taken place).  I could not condone such a system being implemented in this country (very unpleasant!) but I would be very willing to let one of my pets give their organs for transplant should they die unexpectedly and their organs were still healthy.  It would help me to think that their death had somehow helped another animal.

What are your thoughts on the subject?  (I think transplants are possible over here now)

Best wishes,

Roz