Topic: Indoor/Outdoor - your thoughts please! (Read 4779 times)

ccmacey · « **Reply #37 on:** September 03, 2007, 10:51:08 AM »

Circumstances change and we cant always control them

Helen your cats are probably glad of being able to get in the house as they were left outside so much, dont worry you are doing the best for you bunch

furballmom · « **Reply #36 on:** September 02, 2007, 17:18:27 PM »

Well said i couldn't agree more Susanne i to wanted to let them out as they were both used to the outdoors there previous owner rarely let them in the house she couldn't wait to get rid of them. They however have easily converted to an indoor life and are very content not fat or lazy as some people perceive they enjoy hunting the toy mice and running down our long hallway playing with the laser pen it is harder keeping an indoor cat happy but so worth while knowing there safe.
Helen

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #35 on:** September 02, 2007, 17:02:39 PM »

Quote from: SpecialRed on September 02, 2007, 15:56:24 PM

I have to say that I personally believe cats should have their freedom. If I lived in a Flat I would not have a cat or the same goes if I lived on a busy road with no area for the cat to do whats natural. Its similar to buying a pet bird and keeping it in a cage, sort of selfish.

However I would say that alot of people have said how content there indoor cats are so my opinion is not as strong as it once was. I think I see indoor cats as big old fat things that are lazy and not kittens who love and learn from outdoor adventures!! lol

Unfortunately a vast proportion of people live near a busy road or in a flat these days. And even those that don't live right next to a busy road usually live within easy distance of a commuter route. Even in the countryside there are dangers. I don't agree with totally sacrificiing a cat's freedom to keep it safe - quality of life has to be considered - but I do believe that instead of focussing on whether a cat is inside or outside we should focus on what cats need in order to be content. An indoor environment cant be as varied and stimulating as an outdoor one, and there's no doubt that most cats enjoy the outdoors, but with a lot of care and attention paid to making the indoor environment as stimulating as possible, I think cats can be kept happy indoors. They have a need to hunt etc and games that simulate hunting activity are essential for the indoor cat. I know that of mine Mosi in particular would love to be able to play outside. But that doesn't mean that he's not happy inside. Cats live in the present and when they're chasing a toy around the room or sleeping on the bed they're totally in the moment - not fretting about being inside. It is always a compromise and I think most of us would love our cats to be able to go outside safely but I think it's just a fact of life these days that few of us live where that's possible.

Before I got my cats I was very firmly of the opinion that cats should be allowed to go outside and that it was cruel to keep them indoors. But then I read up about it and realised that lots of people (esp in the US) keep their cats indoors. When I got my kittens I still wasn't 100% sure I was going to keep them inside. I live in a ground floor flat and did consider ways of letting them outside via the window. I even got someone to come and give me a quote for putting a cat flap in one of the windows. But as they grew up it became obvious to me that they were content with their indoor life so I gave up any thought of letting them go outside. So I'm now all for keeping them indoors, but I do feel the need to emphasize to everyone that it's harder keeping cats indoors than it is to keep an indoor/outdoor cat as we are responsible for providing everything. If they cant' go outside to entertain themselves we have to do as much as we can to bring their outdoor activities indoors.

furballmom · « **Reply #34 on:** September 02, 2007, 16:39:47 PM »

Quote from: blackcat on September 02, 2007, 16:36:23 PM

yes life doesn't always work out the way you thought it might. You aquire an animal it is yours for your lifetime. If circumstances require you to move you have to make the most of it, and this may also mean not being able to provide your animal with the same set of circumstances as you had at the outset. People who keep their animals indoors do so for a number of reasons, and as someone else has pointed out, their life expectancy has increased enormously. Despite me having, at times, been in very remote places with 'ideal' cat environments, they have died due to accident and attack. When they are indoors you know they are always safe, and protected from the elements to boot.

Given the choice, and a decent income, I would not be living in a terrace in Chatham, I would have a nice house in the country

i think if we all had the chance we would all be living in nice quiet areas but alas this is not the case

blackcat · « **Reply #33 on:** September 02, 2007, 16:36:23 PM »

yes life doesn't always work out the way you thought it might. You aquire an animal it is yours for your lifetime. If circumstances require you to move you have to make the most of it, and this may also mean not being able to provide your animal with the same set of circumstances as you had at the outset. People who keep their animals indoors do so for a number of reasons, and as someone else has pointed out, their life expectancy has increased enormously. Despite me having, at times, been in very remote places with 'ideal' cat environments, they have died due to accident and attack. When they are indoors you know they are always safe, and protected from the elements to boot.

Given the choice, and a decent income, I would not be living in a terrace in Chatham, I would have a nice house in the country

Ela · « **Reply #32 on:** September 02, 2007, 16:32:55 PM »

Quote

have to say that I personally believe cats should have their freedom. If I lived in a Flat I would not have a cat or the same goes if I lived on a busy road with no area for the cat to do whats natural. Its similar to buying a pet bird and keeping it in a cage, sort of selfish.

If we only homed as indoor/outdoor then we would be very limited to the amount of cats we would be able to take in each year. Fortunately for us more and more people are wanting indoor cats nowadays. Of course many cats we feel are best suited to indoor only anyway, certain medical problems, 3 legged, deaf, blind, white etc, we like to give the the cats a chance of a long as life as possible and it is certainly possible for them to have a happy, contented life as indoor only. I keep my cats in and do not consider myself in the least bit selfish.

Quote

think I see indoor cats as big old fat things that are lazy and not kittens who love and learn from outdoor adventures!! lol

You obviously have a very short sighted view of indoor cats, I have indoor cats of all shapes and sizes, but none fat and lazy

Millys Mum · « **Reply #31 on:** September 02, 2007, 16:31:31 PM »

If a cat is content indoors then it doesnt hurt it to stay in, so dont feel guilty about them missing the outdoors Helen.

The most important thing is your girls have a loving home and they are happy.

If this was my house i would have kept the most recent 3 as indoor only. I worry all the time about them getting hurt and i live in a quiet, safe area in a cul de sac with only a dozen homes in it.

furballmom · « **Reply #30 on:** September 02, 2007, 16:25:01 PM »

Quote from: SpecialRed on September 02, 2007, 15:56:24 PM

I have to say that I personally believe cats should have their freedom. If I lived in a Flat I would not have a cat or the same goes if I lived on a busy road with no area for the cat to do whats natural. Its similar to buying a pet bird and keeping it in a cage, sort of selfish.

so are you saying i'm selfish for being owned by two cats and for living in a flat and by a busy road, we cant all live in ideal situations where cats can have the freedom that comes naturally to them. if this is the case can i just say that the majority (but not all) indoors cat tend to live longer if kept as indoors cat. ill also have you know that they are healthy and two of the happiest cats i have known call me biased if you will

blackcat · « **Reply #29 on:** September 02, 2007, 16:10:11 PM »

clearly you have not seen the video clip of Smidgen going camping... nothing lazy and laid back there!!!

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php?topic=7075.0

Ela · « **Reply #28 on:** September 02, 2007, 16:08:02 PM »

Quote

My view is cats do not need to go outside.

Quote

Sorry, I don't agree with that,

I personally feel that cats do not need to go outside, although very occasionally we do get a cat that we feel may be happier as indoor/outdoor. This is one of those topics that pops up often and I think we all agree to disagree and do what we feel (with the informed knowledge available) is in our cats best interest.

SpecialRed · « **Reply #27 on:** September 02, 2007, 15:56:24 PM »

I have to say that I personally believe cats should have their freedom. If I lived in a Flat I would not have a cat or the same goes if I lived on a busy road with no area for the cat to do whats natural. Its similar to buying a pet bird and keeping it in a cage, sort of selfish.

However I would say that alot of people have said how content there indoor cats are so my opinion is not as strong as it once was. I think I see indoor cats as big old fat things that are lazy and not kittens who love and learn from outdoor adventures!! lol

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #26 on:** September 02, 2007, 15:49:50 PM »

Quote from: Auferstehen on September 01, 2007, 10:22:18 AM

My view is cats do not need to go outside.

Sorry, I don't agree with that, given the option most cats would choose access to outdoors, it is part of their make up, its hardwired into their brains. Mine all have access to the garden, one part comletely enclosed for nighttime, the rest of the garden isnt completely enclosed, and they have access to it the rest of the time.

My ginger mog, Harry has always gone out of the garden (he's 11 now) and he wouldnt have it any other way, and nor would I. He wouldnt be Harry if I restricted him in any way, even to just the garden itself. On the other hand, I have Elsa who at 20 is happy to stay indoors now, her choice, despite being an intrepid hunter in her younger days! Persians Zeta and Jasper who came to live here in March are also very different, Zeta potters about the garden and has only once made the mistake of getting stuck up on the neighbours fruitcage! Jasper on the other hand, clambers over fences 6ft high, and takes himself off on a walkabout most days! You can't just have a blanket statement that says 'cats don't need to go outside' Some do, some don't.

As to harnesses, well I've never tried them, but back in the 70s hubbie and me used to take our black mogs Sophie and Schweppes out for walks in the country on collar and lead (not recommended I know!) and they used to love it, but then they had free access to the garden and surrounds anyway. I agree that it wouldnt be fair to take cats out on a harness that werent going to be allowed to have outdoor access at other times.

ccmacey · « **Reply #25 on:** September 02, 2007, 13:06:47 PM »

Good choice and a lot less worry for you

furballmom · « **Reply #24 on:** September 02, 2007, 13:00:04 PM »

just to update you guys
rest assured after much deliberation and reading of this thread.
We have decided to abandon the cat harnesses and to keep them indoors i guess i was just feeling guilty as they were outdoors cats before they came here. I guess it was due to the fact that Phoenix was constantly sitting by the window but this has decreased dramatically of late as shes now accustomed to the indoor life and now seems content with her lot and gets spoilt rotten by the two of us

for your input its put my mind at ease
Helen

ccmacey · « **Reply #23 on:** September 02, 2007, 12:50:03 PM »

From what you have said about the area you live in I would keep them as indoors only, they don't know what they are missing if they haven't been given it to miss.

Cat harness arnt that easy to use if the cat wont cooperate, you don't know if the cat will stick to the path and you will probably end up getting pulled through gardens lol.

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #22 on:** September 01, 2007, 22:16:06 PM »

My cats are indoor cats as I live in a flat near a busy road. They've never been outside, although Mosi did have access to an outdoor enclosure at the breeders before I got him at 14 weeks old.

My opinion is that while it's nice for cats to have free outdoor access if they are in an area where it's relatively safe (it will never be 100% safe) they can do well enough as indoor cats provided attention is paid to making the indoor environment as stimulating as possible. Indoor cats need opportunities for physical exercise and mental stimulation and that needs to be provided by the owner so it can be quite hard work keeping indoor cats entertained. I know I spend most of each evening keeping Mosi entertained. I do go out now and again, but there's no way I could be out at work during the day then go out in the evening several nights a week and still keep him happy. That's largely because he's an active breed and a particularly lively individual, but Jaffa is a moggy adopted from a rescue at 8 weeks old and he's also a very lively cat. Less demanding now that he's 10 years old, but he's always needed a lot of attention.

Outdoor enclosures and cat proof gardens are a good compromise allowing some safe outdoor access. I know of many people who take their cats out on a harness, but it's essential to get a safe, well fitting harness and never leave them alone (eg tethered to something). It can work but I'm not sure I'd want to do that myself.

Millys Mum · « **Reply #21 on:** September 01, 2007, 21:20:04 PM »

Thats what i mean about them getting an urge to be free, they couldnt because of the road. What happens if one becomes so desperate to be out she starts soiling the flat? Keep her in soiling, let her out to play chicken with cars or rehome her somewhere safe, none of which are ideal.
I think if something aint broke dont fix it.

furballmom · « **Reply #20 on:** September 01, 2007, 20:49:10 PM »

i would let them go out as they wish but we live next to a road with very heavy traffic and two dogs live opposite if i could let them out on there own i would but then they cant get back in as i live in a flat on the second floor so I'm afraid that the harness is the only option plus some of my neighbours are the less than favourable kind if you know what i mean

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #19 on:** September 01, 2007, 19:30:20 PM »

The only thing I can think of is that they didn't know if she had been done or not, we have had cats in like that, but we do warn people - we were convinced that KAz had been done, as she was on the streets and felt like she had a patch that was thinner than the rest in the right place - yet 6 weeks later she came into season, we couldnt believe it, as we picked her up in April, so normally they would come into season in that time span - vet estimated her at 1, so she was very lucky.

Millys Mum · « **Reply #18 on:** September 01, 2007, 19:28:18 PM »

Im of the opinion that you shouldnt take a cat out on a harness if you cant then go on to let them go out as they wish with as much freedom as they want. By giving them a taster i think its mean and then you end up with a cat who bolts at the door at every chance.

furballmom · « **Reply #17 on:** September 01, 2007, 15:16:17 PM »

phoenix was spayed before she came to us her fur is still growing back and gimley will be fixed in the coming month

Sabrina (Auferstehen) · « **Reply #16 on:** September 01, 2007, 12:35:57 PM »

Quote from: Ela on September 01, 2007, 10:35:19 AM

Quote
Our Smoke who we rescued in February only wanted to go outside when she was in heat, we were told her age and her name when we adopted her.

I am shocked that a rescue could home a cat that is old enough to be spayed and had not been. As we all know it is just as important for indoor cats to be spayed, as each season a cat has increases the chances of mammary tumors later in life and of course there is a risk of pyometra and other related infections.

They also told me to wait 6 weeks before letting her outside, without a word about spaying her. We went there because it is right down the street from us, in fact we took the 5 minute walk down and then had to walk back to get the cat carrier and car to take her home.

And yes, all cats should be microchipped, in case someone was to break into the house and let the cats out etc.

Ela · « **Reply #15 on:** September 01, 2007, 11:29:19 AM »

Quote

They can pull the harness out of your hand if they get scared Iain,

That is exactly what happend in a case I know of and more than once cats on harness have managed to get out when they have seen a bird on a hedge/wall, ran to chase it into the neighbours garden and then found their way onto the road and run over.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #14 on:** September 01, 2007, 11:21:42 AM »

They can pull the harness out of your hand if they get scared Iain, and can then either run in front of a car or get tangled up in something. I have only used them outside once, and my foster did pull too hard - fortunately she ran into the house (how she knew which one mine was I dont know!!).

IainMcT · « **Reply #13 on:** September 01, 2007, 11:12:37 AM »

I'm curious how a cat can lose its life to a harness if you're taking it for a walk. Surely it would be obvious if the chat is choking or getting strangled by it?

Quote from: Ela on September 01, 2007, 08:03:44 AM

Quote
was wondering what your views were on the indoor/outdoor cat debate

My views on the indoor/outdoor debate can be found on my site address below. Also I personally do not approve of a harness, I know of too many cats that have at worst lost their life to them along with collars of course.

clarenmax · « **Reply #12 on:** September 01, 2007, 11:04:08 AM »

I have to say that I'm on the indoor corner to be honest.

My boy is indoor anyway as he's FIV+, but knowing how well he's adapted to life indoors, and knowing that he's safe 100% of the time, I think I'd struggle to have any future cats as outdoor cats to be honest. I'd find it too much of a worry.

I know that cats have their natural insincts to hunt etc, but with the amount of cars on the roads, idiot people these days, I do not feel that their 'normal' environment is actually that normal after all.

blackcat · « **Reply #11 on:** September 01, 2007, 10:49:54 AM »

I have successfully converted outdoor cats into indoor cats on more than one occasion. No failures yet. Initially they will make a bolt for the door every time you open it. With persistence, they will come to recognise it is not an option, and there have been times when I have stood at the door having a conversation with someone who would not go away (you know the sort) and the cats, both indoor from birth and outdoor converted, have simply sat watching this happen with no attempt at a jail break. Make sure they have plenty of toys and other enrichment (upper shelves they can access, towers and scratch posts etc) and they will be happy.

As for the harness, I had one cat who would walk on a leash, but I was constantly concerned about the possibility of dogs rushing up from nowhere. A cat on a harness is incredibly vulnerable when you think about potential dangers that might be encountered in the outdoors. If they are indoor cats them don't give them a decision to make about which they prefer by exposing them to the alternative, it will only make them unhappy in the long-run

furballmom · « **Reply #10 on:** September 01, 2007, 10:44:46 AM »

Quote from: JackSpratt on September 01, 2007, 09:29:26 AM

You could try them on harnesses around the house, see if they really dislike them before taking them outside.

we have tried them on the harness around the house and Phoenix loves it but when she was with her previous owners they where outside most of the day not through her choice though we have had to fatten the pair up a lot as they were under weight not that you can tell now

Ela · « **Reply #9 on:** September 01, 2007, 10:35:19 AM »

Quote

Our Smoke who we rescued in February only wanted to go outside when she was in heat, we were told her age and her name when we adopted her.

I am shocked that a rescue could home a cat that is old enough to be spayed and had not been. As we all know it is just as important for indoor cats to be spayed, as each season a cat has increases the chances of mammary tumors later in life and of course there is a risk of pyometra and other related infections.

Quote

Just please make sure your cats are microchipped before you take them outside,

I personally think all cats should be chipped and not just cats cats that owners intend to allow out. As we all know cats are good escape artists and also it has not been unknown for catteries to lose cats.

Sabrina (Auferstehen) · « **Reply #8 on:** September 01, 2007, 10:22:18 AM »

I have friends in the US who walk their one cat on a harness and he loves it, but there is always a chance if they see a bird or something they can get away from you and you might not get them back which will lead to them getting hurt with said harness still being attached.

My view is cats do not need to go outside. And I was shocked the first time I realised that people let their cats out, I would never be able to handle the worry and if some came to my door saying sorry I hit your cat with my car I'd probably attack them.

Our Smoke who we rescued in February only wanted to go outside when she was in heat, we were told her age and her name when we adopted her. I was so shocked that you could walk out the same day with a cat I didn't think to ask the questions I should have. She's now an indoor cat along with Penguin and Lirael who have never known the outside world and never will if I have anything to do with it.

Just please make sure your cats are microchipped before you take them outside, just in case.

JackSpratt · « **Reply #7 on:** September 01, 2007, 09:29:26 AM »

I think with you being on a busy road, your options are limited. Most cats I know don't like harnesses to be honest. I personally feel that if a cat can safely have access to the outside world, it should. But that's an opinion.

You could try them on harnesses around the house, see if they really dislike them before taking them outside.

Ela · « **Reply #6 on:** September 01, 2007, 08:03:44 AM »

Quote

was wondering what your views were on the indoor/outdoor cat debate

My views on the indoor/outdoor debate can be found on my site address below. Also I personally do not approve of a harness, I know of too many cats that have at worst lost their life to them along with collars of course.

rosiesmum · « **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2007, 05:56:06 AM »

My cat Roaie used to go outside - until she was attacked by a couple of dogs and nearly didn't make it! She is now a permanent indoor cat and is extremely content. So, with the experience I have had, I would say indoor, or if you are able to have a cat run in the garden, then that is good too.

furballmom · « **Reply #4 on:** August 31, 2007, 23:12:25 PM »

Quote from: lynn on August 31, 2007, 23:00:43 PM

I dont think this is really such a big debate nowadays, or perhaps actually it is but i think the balance may be tipping slightly toward the indoor corner.

If you had a garden there is always the option of getting a run so you could leave them out in it for a few hours for fresh air and then bring them in.

unfortunatly i dont have a garden but where i plan on taking them for a walk there is a large patch of grass and no roads

Sam (Fussy_Furball) · « **Reply #3 on:** August 31, 2007, 23:02:05 PM »

Oooh the great in door out door debate .. we have different views on this as there are so many factors to be taken into consideration.

Maybe this link will be of interest to you: http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php?topic=4872.0

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #2 on:** August 31, 2007, 23:00:43 PM »

I dont think this is really such a big debate nowadays, or perhaps actually it is but i think the balance may be tipping slightly toward the indoor corner.

A huge amount of cats are indoors only and these range from new born kittens who never know any different to feral / stray cats who have lived outdoors for a long time. Most of the time a cat will adjust and be fine but they do need extra stimulation in the shape of cat climbing centres, scratch posts and many toys - this can be deluxe items to a simple cardboard box and ping pong ball.

Some people do take their cats out on harnesses and i have done so to one of mine in the past, i would always advise your cats are micro chipped anyway regardless what you do and get a correctly fitting harness which will need to be fairly tightly fastened and get them used to it in the house first, i would also only advise it is used somewhere quite quiet such as the garden or park, not on streets etc as i'd be afraid a noisy car etc could startle the cat and they might take off.

If you had a garden there is always the option of getting a run so you could leave them out in it for a few hours for fresh air and then bring them in.

furballmom · « **Reply #1 on:** August 31, 2007, 22:46:44 PM »

hi guys,
i recently adopted two bundles of joy and i was wondering what your views were on the indoor/outdoor cat debate. For reasons beyond my control my cats are indoors only(i live in a flat by a busy road) i would love to take them out side and in the coming weeks i intend to do so. i have bought a couple of cat harnesses so i can take them out with supervision and i was wondering if anyone had any advice or views on this. i think my only concern apart from them trying to escape is been known as the crazy cat lady who takes her kitty for a walk.
Helen

(edited for thread title - Becca

)

Author Topic: Indoor/Outdoor - your thoughts please! (Read 4779 times)

ccmacey

ccmacey

ccmacey