Author Topic: Cat using beds as toilet  (Read 6839 times)

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2016, 05:43:22 AM »
That's great news, Tim.  Well done, Mr Douglas, Sir.   ;)

Offline Judecat (Paula)

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2016, 22:05:08 PM »
Wonderful news Tim, everything crossed that Mr Douglas is sorted in his feelings to the other cats :Luv2:
Oscar Wilde on his adored Mog "The Mighty Atom that purrs and furrs"

Offline Lyn (Slugsta)

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2016, 21:32:56 PM »
That's good to hear, thanks for the update  ;D

Offline tmwsccsh

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2016, 21:26:15 PM »
Hi all,

Well, it's been 3 months or so since my last posting so I thought I would give another update as to progress.

The fights and disagreements among all are continuing, but I am pleased to report that the adventurous nature is still with us and more exploring is being done.

Still no more peeing has been done, and the hair-loss problem he had seems to have gone away and he's almost got a full coat again.

So, all in, at this time, all continues to be positive.

Regards

TMW

Offline Susanne (urbantigers)

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2016, 08:42:43 AM »
That sounds like very promising news. He could be going out more because it's getting lighter longer outside or to get away from the other cats but it really does sound as though he's adapted and they are getting used to each other and learning how to live together.  My older cat (10 years old) has also seemed to have a new lease of life since I brought home a kitten last year. Sometimes I think its the additional stimulation that is actually good for some cats.

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2016, 20:17:32 PM »
Such good news - May it continue.  ;D

Offline alisonandarchie

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2016, 20:11:03 PM »
Great news ;D

Offline Frances

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2016, 20:05:47 PM »
clearly your psychic messages also got through to him!

The power of Purrs vibes is a well-known and mysterious phenomenon :shify: :evillaugh:.

Really pleased that Douglas seems to have got over whatever upset him.  One of mine went though a phantom piddler phase - I can also recommend RX66 for removing all traces of the "evidence" :sick:.

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2016, 19:16:02 PM »
Thats really great news and long may it continue  ;D ;D ;D

Cats have this way of knowing, you know  :evillaugh: :evillaugh:

Offline tmwsccsh

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2016, 19:07:38 PM »
Hi all,

Well, an interesting development.  Ok, interesting may not be the right word, but something odd has happened.

Since my original post was put up, Douglas has changed.  He has not peed anywhere in the house at all and has a new lease of life.  He is going out much more during the day and at night and also explores in the house more than he has been of late.

There's still the odd spat with the others but generally he is much more like he used to be.

It's almost as if he knew I had put the message up here and thought "damn - I better change or they are going to start doing stuff".

Really odd but a really positive step.

Thanks to all who replied - clearly your psychic messages also got through to him!

Will post back again in a couple of weeks to let you all know how it's going.

Regards

TMW

Offline Susanne (urbantigers)

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2016, 09:58:19 AM »
When health problems have been ruled out, peeing on stuff like this is almost always a sign of insecurity and the need to mark territory. Poor Douglas has had a lot going on in his life lately hasn't he? He may have lived with other cats in the past but that's no guarantee he will get on with any cat and at his age he's probably a bit set in his ways and used to being on his own. Cats are solitary animals and dont naturally choose to live in groups so often the best that we can achieve is for them is that they tolerate each other. It sounds as though Douglas is a bit upset at what he sees as intruders in his space.

I would definitely provide Douglas with litter trays upstairs so that he has somewhere to go if he doesn't want to come downstairs. Also make sure everywhere he's used has been thoroughly cleaned and treated with a cleaner containing enzymes that digest organic matter so that no smell remains to attract him back. You can get a cheaper cleaner from places like pets at home but I like RX66 from Amazon.  Are you still using the zylkene? It doesn't help all cats but you can try increasing the dose. Also try feliway and pet remedy plug ins. The latter is cheaper but doesn't work for all cats so I would try both. Feliway is intended specifically for this type of problem.

I would also keep him separate from the other cats for a while if possible and re-do introductions slowly. Start with scent swapping and then letting them be together for short periods of time. Make sure Douglas has plenty of places to retreat to, especially high up. Fingers crossed he will start to feel more secure soon. It's not easy introducing new cats to an older cat.

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2016, 16:31:18 PM »
Sorry to hear poor Douglas is suffering so and Sues advice is great.

Definately think this is being caused by the intruders into his house and think that it is them that must be coralled rather than Douglas and he is suffering big time because of them and wants his terroitory back.

Agree also about the litter trays, they are essential to his health and happiness.

I also wonder how much you trust your vet cos my feeling is that a second opinion is needed for Douglas but try to sort out the behavour problems first to see if you can get him on an even keel. If you can find a good vet who really knows his stuff that may help Douglas.

If you have him insured usually there is a small amount that can be used for referral to a behavourist and a good one will come and visit and advise how Douglas could be helped.  Dont go hunting on the internet cos you will get money seekers but a vet should know of good ones.......................dont be surprised if a behaviourist is not happy about the two intruders!

I do hope Douglas can get settled again as its so hard for an older cat.


Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2016, 13:41:25 PM »


That's interesting Tom.  Sounds like he may well be being "corralled" in his safe zone by the other cats. 

Hope that the suggestions provided will help to ease the situation for all concerned.

Offline tmwsccsh

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2016, 13:32:34 PM »
Hi all and thank you very much to all who have responded so kindly.

I shall have a more thorough read of all over the weekend with my fiancée so we can decide on the first best course of action.

He is fine in himself - still as violent :-) but it's just this - and can happen at any time. 

I did spot this morning, having been woken around 5am, that one of the others chased Douglas back into the bedroom - I think he may have been trying to venture out but was "spotted".  A repeat of this happened around 6am as well...

Will digest in more detail and advise.

Thanks again so far.

Regards

Tim Watts

Offline Sootyca

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2016, 17:17:45 PM »
Welcome to Purrs and well done for trying everything you can.

There''s nothing much I can add other than to reiterate the litter trays.

One of my old cats used to go in the bath or on the floor in the bathroom - he was checked and there was nothing out of the ordinary come up.  One day I put a litter tray in the bathroom without expecting it to make a difference (there was already one downstairs and he usually went outside) and he started using that and there was very little problem after that.  Figured he was just getting to slow to get to the tray downstairs in time, or he just preferred to go upstairs in the bathroom.

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2016, 07:26:01 AM »
Hi Tim - welcome to Purrs to you and the very splendid Mr Douglas Cat, Senior Kittizen and long time companion.   :) :welcome:

Thanks for giving us a comprehensive overview of Douglas's behavior and characteristics, as it really helps when issues like this crop up.

There's been a lot going on in Douglas's life of late, hasn't there?  This can be quite tricky at any time in a cat's life, let alone when they're most definitely "pensioner cats"   He's lost his previous companions, and now has found them replaced with one at least who has exerted his own character to the point where Douglas has suffered physical harm, and needed veterinary treatment.  he must be feeling pretty fed up.  Yu can imagine how you'd feel if your family suddenly moved three other people into your home, telling you that things would be fine, and then one of them rounded on you and gave you what for, sending you to the Doc for treatment as a result.  And that's how Douglas's world has been affected.   :-:

Introductions between new cats can be tricky to manage.  Were the new cats confined to one room initially and gradually introduced with site and smell swapping, or were they just brought together and left to work things out?

It sounds, having had Douglas to the vet, that he has the sort of health issues you might expect with older cats, such as his heart murmur (although I appreciate he's had that many many years) his thirst and his vomiting (often an indicator of thyroid problems).  The fact he doesn't seem comfortable putting his bottom on the ground could indicate pelvic problems, arthritic changes, or an abdominal problem, and I think it's worth raising this again with the vet, especially after the blood in his stools (though that may just be a stress reaction too).

It does sound as though his current actions are behavioural, and that he's stressed out by the changes and the new arrivals.    It looks like his peeing and defecating is his way of marking what is "his" - ie your things and those of what he considers as "his people."

Are you continuing to use Zylkene, and if so, how often does Douglas receive it?

We've just recently experienced inappropriate peeing with one of our two semi ferals we took on in November.  They share our home with Moray, a young, laid back NFC look-a-like cat, who is very chilled and good natured.  They all rub along (wouldn't say Moray's thrilled with his new companions, but he tolerates them, and I'm sure when they're less hooligan like, they may actually get along very well).

One of the Gurlcats began peeing on the snuggle chair in our bedroom, as she was marking it as hers and my OH's.  I was using it at weekends, and therein I think lay the problem.  The Gurls are very territory possessive, due to their rather wild beginnings. 

I can tell you what we've tried, and what has worked for us, and you can maybe see if it works for Douglas.

First of all, if you can, give Douglas somewhere that is completely his, where the other cats are out of bounds.  Your bedroom would be ideal to begin with.  This will be exclusively his place.   Confining the cat to one room may seem cruel, and I understand why we think that way, but often with a stressed cat, it reduces his space to a space he can defend comfortably and without having to worry.  This is where the unpalatable bit may come in.  You're going to need a few litter trays.  And put them around your bedroom - maybe three or four.  One of them should go on your bed, so you may want to revert to the plastic while you try this.  Put his food and water in the room for him too.  This will become his domain.  I would clean the litter boxes as often as you can (this will also help you detect whether there is anything further amiss with his toileting, such as a return of blood in his poo.).

If he uses the litter trays instead of the bedding etc, that's a good first move.  Leave the trays in situ for a while (obviously removing them from the bed at night when you go to sleep, but leaving the other trays - I hope your bedroom's a reasonable size to accommodate this!)

We used (and still use) Pet Remedy plug-ins.  On the whole whole we've found Pet remedy to be more effective than feliway, but I think that depends on your cat as much as anything else.   We put plug ins upstairs and downstairs.  We also bought Pet Remedy spray (around £20 from PAH but you can buy cheaper online) and sprayed bedding and furnishings and our hands when handling the girls. 

We also cleaned the soiled area with a special cleaner - a wonderful lady on this forum called Rosella mentioned to us a product called RX66 - you can only buy it online so far as I know, and we paid about £12 plus P & P, but it's an enzymatic cleaner.  It was fantastic for cleaning the soiled chair, and it completely removes the smell of pee and poop if you follow the instructions.  Obviously you can wash bedding on a hot wash or add an antibacterial to the wash, but on carpets, your son's sports bag etc, try the RX66.  It's very good.


After we'd cleaned the soiled areas, we began to put small plates of food down on the affected chair, working on the principle that cats generally will not urinate or defecate in the vicinity of their  food.  You may just want to put a spoonful of food or his favourite treat in dishes at the various favoured pee and poo spots, including the bed.  Hopefully, he will then begin to disregard the bed at lest, for his toileting.  (Baby steps are everything when you're trying to work with a traumatised cat).

I would still let him go out when he wants to, but make sure he has access to his room as first resort of safety, and that the other cats do not enter that room when he's not in it.


This has helped change the behaviour of our Gurlcat, and she's not now using the chair as a litterbox, and (touch wood) she hasn't chosen a replacement.  We had to persevere for about 5 weeks in order to see a marked difference.

Does he still climb, or does he like places to retreat into?  If so, you could try getting him a cat tree or a "den bed" that he can use when he's elsewhere in the house, assuming the suggestions I've made above show any improvement in his behavior.   

If you can try this for a week or so, and monitor any alterations in his behavior, then you can consider planned reintroductions to the other housemates.   

Do the other cats get playtime?  Does Douglas get playtime?  Even older cats enjoy some "me" time with their favourite people.  Maybe you or your son or other family members could play with him with a rolled up paper ball, just flicking it back and forward gently, to see if he'll engage.  or try him with a wand toy, and mimic prey behavior, to see if he responds.  Fifteen minutes twice a day should be good.  If he'll respond to your play overtures, it will give him an energy release, help to stress bust, and of course, let him know that you still care for him as Numero Uno puss-cat.

I hope some of these suggestions will help Douglas (and your family) get his equilibrium back.

Liz, another forum member, has a large number of cats who've all learned to rub along together, but she has some good tips and tricks for easing the way too.

And I see the lovely Rosella I referred to earlier has beaten me to it in terms of posts.   :)



Offline Rosella moggy

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2016, 07:08:31 AM »

Offline Rosella moggy

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2016, 06:46:44 AM »
Hi and  :welcome: to Purrs. Sorry you found us under such circumstances. Sounds like Douglas is upset that's for sure  :hug:  Such a shame at his age  :(

His territory is under threat from the new cats in your home and he is having frequent vet visits. Poor lamb.  You are obviously a very caring slave but he's a cat and territory is so important to him.

He needs access to litter trays. All our cats have access to outdoors but we still have trays indoors.

Has the vet not suggested he may have stress related cystitis? I would ask vet about that possibility and seek his advice about treatment in view of possible kidney problem.  Think I would also try Pet Remedy plug ins if Feliway not helping. One upstairs and one downstairs and carry on with zylkene.

Offline alisonandarchie

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2016, 02:50:15 AM »
I agree Lynn there will be lots of people with experience of this sort of behaviour.

It does seem to follow on from the introduction of the 'new cats' Wonder if the over preening was due to stress too.

My eldest cat, had not had a good life before she adopted us, peed on my bed and in my son's room twice when she discovered the upstairs as if she was marking the territory. She also used to pee cushions downstairs frequently when stressed. She has not done this for quite a while now so I guess she feels fully relaxed with the house.

Hope you can find a solution as understand how you will be feeling :hug:

Offline Lyn (Slugsta)

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Re: Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2016, 19:25:17 PM »
Hi and  :welcome:

I'm afraid I don't have any ideas for you but there is a wealth of experience and knowledge on this site so I'm sure you will get some suggestions soon  ;D

Offline tmwsccsh

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Cat using beds as toilet
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2016, 18:50:54 PM »
Hello.

First time poster who is currently in desperate need of some ideas / pointers / help.

Apologies in advance that this is a long posting – I feel it is important to give a whole synopsis and history as it is possible that anything may help.

I have an almost 16 year old male cat, Douglas, who has recently (within the last 2 months) started using beds in the house as a toilet, both for liquid and solid deposits and this is now becoming a very regular event (every couple of days) and today has also started using the downstairs hallway carpet for his satisfaction.

Within himself, he appears fine.  He comes for food when required and wanders around, venturing outside as and when he sees fit.  There has been a change in his life since the beginning of December in that he was the sole cat in the house prior to this but my mother-in-law has now moved in with us and brought her 2 cats with her, one male, the other female, both around 12 years old.

Douglas has been in a group of cats in the past.  I have had him since he was about 13 weeks old and already had a female cat around 4 years old when I got him – she treated him like her own and looked after him well.  They would fight occasionally but nothing serious.  When he was around 7 they were joined by 2 more cats, both female, and again, although the odd spat occurred, all was generally Ok.  Around 3 years after this a puppy was also brought in to the family (after the other 3 cats had all sadly passed away at different times) and, whilst it was clear that he did not like the dog (but the dog did just want to be friends with him) he just went about his business, occasionally having a swipe when required.  The dog moved out around a year or so later and it was just Douglas from that point.

He is a bit of a violent one – he’s always been like it.  All sweetness and light until he’s had enough, at which point he will either bite or scratch at you – sometimes unprovoked even; it’s part of his character.

He’s also generally in good health.  He has a slight heart murmour (always had it) and did go through a phase of constantly chucking up each day but this was found to be diet related – he was put onto Hills I/D and this cleared up within days – he’s been on that ever since (probably about 4 years now).  Always drinks a lot though – water – but if there’s water anywhere his head is in it slurping away.

Around September last year (when he was just the one cat) it was noticed that he was starting to lose his hair a bit and was also becoming less energetic than previously.  We took him to the Vet and they gave him a steroid jab to see if this would help things.  Within a few days he had his swipe back and was back to his old self but the hair loss was still happening (not all over, just his sides and part of his back).  Back to the vets a couple of weeks later for another check as he had also started to lose momentum again and they gave him another steroid jab.  The process repeated – he came back to life for a few days and then tailed off – hair loss had stopped but it did not appear to be growing back.

At this time, December, the other 2 cats came into the family.  Unfortunately, after a couple of days, Douglas had had a run in with the male one and had to be taken to the vet as the new one had bitten through his front pad and it needed treatment.  Douglas was put on anti-biotics for a few days and it healed fine.  We shortly took him to the vets again for another look about the hair not growing.  No real cause could be identified (over preening maybe or possibly fleas, however he is treated each month) so another steroid was given. 

During the next few weeks there was the odd fight with the other 2 and they had to be separated on some occasions and Douglas started living upstairs in the house more, mainly the master bedroom.  He still came down for food and went out when needed (no litter trays in the house) but seemed to have adopted this new upstairs lifestyle.  A Feliway plug-in has been in use since their arrival but we are not convinced it is actually doing anything.

Early January he was taken to the vets again as the hair was still not growing back.  We collectively decided that as no real cause for the loss could be identified and it wasn’t getting any worse that we would now leave it and see what happened.  The vet was fairly sure that they could see a small amount of re-growth from previous visits so it was just a matter of time.

Then, early to mid-February, the deposits on the bed started happening.  Originally we thought it could be laziness and he couldn’t be bothered to go downstairs and out to use the garden as he used to, but then we saw him come in, go upstairs and right in front of us did it on the bed.  We started putting a plastic cover over the bed during the day whilst at work but this just became an annoyance to us.

As the deposits continued, and were also starting on our Sons bed, he was taken to the vet mid February to see if there was some other cause.  They suggested it was behavioural and gave us something to try and calm him down (Zylkene) but this made no difference.  After another week or so and more wet and solid incidents we took him to the vets again.  They wanted to try this and that but we insisted on a blood test to see if there was anything else going on.  Unfortunately, owing to his violent temperament, they could not achieve this on the visit and he had to be taken back a couple of days later for sedation so it could be done.  Results were back the next day.  A slight concern was there with his Kidneys.  They said it wasn’t high, just a concern.  Suggestion was to put him on to the Hills K/D food, which he is now on and seems to enjoy. 

Alas, the messing is continuing however.  But within himself he is becoming “braver” and is venturing downstairs more and into more of the main body of the house.  Still goes out when he wants to but still the pee and poo continues.  On Saturday just gone, I caught him in the middle of a poo on the bed and noticed that there was also blood coming out with it.  Straight down the vets and they had a look over.  I also mentioned that he didn’t seem to be able to sit down properly at the moment as he had not been putting his bum down when sitting for about a week but this was not really acknowledged, nor was the blood element.  Suspicion was a stomach infection or similar so he was given some Pro-Kol to have with his food.  No blood spotted since though I am pleased to say.

We are currently at our wits end with this though.  Each morning before going to work there is worry that he will do something and when we get home at night it’s the wondering what we will find and all throughout the evening too.  This morning, around 5:45am he weed on the bed so that was dealt with straight away, but then around 7:40am we found a wet patch on the hall carpet for the first time and it would appear that he also got our sons school bag that was next to this patch as that has a strong wee odour to it.  Carpet is easy enough to sort, but the bag could only be Febrezed and we are waiting to see if that has done the trick or not.

What can we do?  What could be causing this and what can we do to stop him doing this throughout the house?  We don’t want to stop him having access around the house as that would not be fair on him but it is now driving us to a point of desperation as we don’t know what more we can be doing to stop him.

Apologies again for the length of this posting – I think that the whole background may be relevant in case there is something of benefit in there.

Thank you in advance for any assistance given.

Regards

Tim Watts

 


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