Problems with a shelter

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

As far as PTs is concerned this should be as you say only for cats who have the symptoms, I maybe didnt make myself clear. 

Angie is right about corona virus and they will get better from this as long as it does not mutate to FIP.

I send you lots of good wishes at the meeting and hope you can get them to at least isolate any sick cats.

[Angiew]

coronavirus is NOT FIP. It causes diarrhea and most cats have no other complications.

To force a shelter to test for this will put unnecessary financial strain on them. I'm sure US shelters are as strapped for cash as UK ones. It is estimated that most cats carry the coronavirus and to test to eradicate (as you might in a breeding plan) is expensive and time consuming as you have to retest to get to low titres. and once again I cannot stress enough that is is not the same as FIP.

If you have not done so please check the addie site - it is one of the worlds best for FIP.

Unless you have paid for a post mortem, I think you are on dodgy grounds.

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that you do need to go to the meeting and definately with one of the vets.

[CoolCyberCats]

Hi Gill,
You asked:

If they are letting cats die due to FIP this is cruel in the extreme, is their no way of any local law or body that could get involved in this?

Sadly no. There are no laws over this here in the county or state.

I do not fully agree on euthenizing the "suspected" FIP cats. Do keep in mind that cats can have it and either not develop full blown wet or dry FIP or live many many years before it surfaces. There are many shelters out here that have specific FIP rooms and people who adopt and care for them. But once the clinical signs appear it is a death sentance and those should be allowed to leave painfree and peacefully.

I will look over that link when I am home from work. Thank you for the great reply.

David

[CoolCyberCats]

Hi Angie,
FIP is not a wildly contagious disease, but it can most certinly be passed. Here is a clip off the Cornell University College of Veterinarian Medicine:

FIP is not a highly contagious disease, since by the time the cat develops clinical disease only a small amount of virus is being shed. Feline coronavirus can be found in large quantities in the saliva and feces of cats during the acute infection, and to a lesser extent in recovered or carrier cats, so it can be transmitted through cat-to-cat contact and exposure to feces. The virus can also live in the environment for several weeks. The most common transmission of feline coronavirus occurs when infected female cats pass along the virus to their kittens, usually when the kittens are between five and eight weeks of age.

If you want to read the full page it is http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/fip.html

I admit that the cats there may no longer be in an early stage where they are shedding more of the coronavirus and other cats may not have the reaction to it that causes FIP...

You are absolutly right about stress being a factor in the cat developing it. Another concern over the shelter, not that they are intentionally stressing the cats mind you.

I do not "blame" the shelter, but want thim to take the bull by the horns and start testing the cats and isolating questionalable ones till they can do more tests. Once they have the population divided the cat areas need to be properly cleaned before cats can return. Since they have been adopting out FIP cats for 6 months, I believe a problem exists. The cats that were diagnosed by the vets I spoke with did come up positive and showed all clinical signs of it. Does that "prove" it? Eh, no, but it is a lot more proof than none.

I won't be rude at the board meeting, but will stand firm. 2 vets are willing to go with me now and I am not talking to a 3rd who may have also had an FIP cat from there in the last 2 months. My hope is that they listen and not turn away. Sadly I have dealt with this particular shelter and board in the past and I do not consider them a good and responsable board. In fact in 2004 they had invited me to become a member as an opening came up (I was attending the meetings and working with them) and after I learned a lot more about the inner workings of this board and shelter I declined and stopped attending all together. *sigh*

Thanks or the great reply!

David

[Angiew]

FIP in itself is not a contagious disease
.
So mixing FIP and non FIP cats should not cause an epidemic of FIP though it may well cause some diarrhea due to the coronovirus (this is the virus mutates into FIP).

As usual, stress in one of the factors that is thought to cause this mutation so it is more likely that shelter cats may succumb more than 'owned' cats.

Wet FIP is a very quick acting thing so it may be likely that the cats were homed without their knowledge of this disease. Once the symptoms show, with wet FIP there is only a matter of weeks.

Unless FIP is specifically tested for at post mortem, it is very hard to prove that it is FIP.
 In my experience, vets often use FIP as a label when a cat is ill and they do not have anything else to pin it on. This explains why some cats 'diagnosed' with FIP go on to make a complete recovery.

As far as having many bugs going around then that does happen in the best of places. Some viruses are airborne (flu for example) and quite hard to prevent and all rescues are at risk from bringing things in with new cats or even visitors bringing stuff in on their hand and clothes.

If the vet is suspicious that the animals are not as well as they should be, then he should do something - either speak to the shelter or contact a welfare agency.

3 cats may seem like a lot to him but if for example the rescue is large and deals with hundreds of cats each year then it may not show anything significant is going on.

It is always upsetting when a cat dies but rarely in these circumstances is 'anyone to blame'.

By all means, go to the next committee meeting and make some enquiries about it but do not point the finger as they will probably get defensive and be less likely to give you any meaningful responses.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

FIP is a vile despicable killer and it rears its head most often in places where the animals are mixed together and are not in good conditions.

As far as I know from various discussions about FIP, if a cat gets it, it will die painfully.; if its wet then it will die quicker than if it it is dry.

Its very hard to diagnose unless the cat is dead,

There is a Dr in Scotland who is the expert on FIP in the UK, Dr Kate Addie and she used to have a very knowledgeable website which we had a link to but it went down and dont know if it has reappeared. Off to check!

This is the link and now has loads of othe stuff about cat flu etc

http://www.dr-addie.com/WhatIsFIP.htm

I would say that this shelter should isolate all sick cats until they know what is wrong with them and any suspected of having FIP probably should be probably be PTS  to save them a terrible death in agony because it appears to go for a while often but then comes back even worse and there is no cure

They should stop rehoming until they have all well cats and also should not take any in.

Any shelter should ensure they are not rehoming animals with somerthing like FIP or they are not caring for their cats.

In this country one would be able to ask RSPCA to inspect under the Animal Act and suspect threy would take the easy option if loads of cats had FIP and they would just PTS all cats 

If they are letting cats die due to FIP this is cruel in the extreme, is their no way of any local law or body that could get involved in this?

Some cats are more susceptable to FIP than others and this is in the link.

[CoolCyberCats]

Hi all,

Looking to get some opinions here on this sad topic. Keep in mind I am in the USA and many laws and how people react my differ from the UK. Here is a fast rundown…

Someone I know adopted a cat from a shelter out here. The cat became lethargic and ill and 3 weeks after he had been adopted, the owner found out from the veterinarian that all signs point to full blown wet FIP and he was near death. (if interested, yes he died)

I then found out from a veterinarian that they had 2 clients who adopted from this shelter and the cats had FIP. One was early fall and the other was put to sleep last week.
The shelter (when the 1st person I mentioned) told them was very defensive and took the cat back (he died with them) insisting it was a bad cold.
I am very upset right now. I was considering all points and possibilities on this and as I see some:

The shelter must take action and obviously has not. Since the cats that were adopted out were mixed into their general cat population there is a strong chance that FIP is now moving through their cats. That they acted defensive and refused to believe or even entertain the possibility is very disturbing. Assuming FIP is now moving among the cats there, anyone who adopts one and has cats at home already is at risk of infecting their other cats. Since FIP may not rear it’s ugly head for years, they would never know and then one day suffer great losses.

If brought to the shelters attention (forced to their attention) what will they do? Since there is no laws here on this with shelters, they could simply choose continue turning a blind eye to the situation, or worse simply “destroy” the entire shelter cat population and start over and say they took care of the problem. Killing them all is not acceptable since many FIP cats will not end up dying from it and many people adopt them knowingly and love them for their entire lives.

I suppose my next step is to find out when and where the shelter’s next board meeting is and attend with the intention of speaking to them. Sadly I have dealt with this shelter’s board in the past and I am not keen on how they run things and the shelter as a whole. Since moving here I have heard of several outbreaks of communicable bugs there and just stayed out of it since it is better to have a mediocre shelter helping animals than no shelter. If as I fear the board refuses to listen, does not care or keeps this quiet I will see if any papers out here have interest or I may decide to take pen to paper and send in an editorial.

So what opinions and/or advice does anyone have?