More website stories - just one litter

[Christine (Blip)]

Debbie

That book you suggested sounds interesting Christine and I like to think I do know how to punctuate - but we shall see eh?

I think then, Debbie, that you would ADORE that book. It's worth buying just for the cover, anyway 

[Debbie]

Hmmm what a discussion I have started about the use of commas! 

I am quite prepared to accept when I am wrong and we have had the same debate at work in which we were equally split on what is right (btw I have to write reports and have them quality checked, it's not how we pass the time discussing grammar!).  That book you suggested sounds interesting Christine and I like to think I do know how to punctuate - but we shall see eh?

[Ela]

On the subject of grammar, is it correct to have a comma followed by the word and?

We must have been taught:-

Some people do not realize that the Oxford comma is acceptable, possibly because they were brought up with the supposed rule (which Fowler would call a 'superstition') about putting punctuation marks before and.

[Ela]

I'm always having heated debates with a male friend of mine about the uses of less and fewer. He's always using 'less' when he SHOULD say 'fewer'.

Allegedly  Fewer is correct when referring to numbers, less when meaning an amount or quantity:-  There are fewer people here than usual. There is less amount of money about this Christmas.

[Hippykitty]

I'm always having heated debates with a male friend of mine about the uses of less and fewer. He's always using 'less' when he SHOULD say 'fewer'.

That's a real hobby-horse of mine. Aaaaarrrggghhhh! 

[Hippykitty]

I've read that, it's hilarious, but it's very much an 'in' joke for people who already know how to punctuate. Love the stuff about semi-colons - how there should be a Betty Ford Clinic for people addicted to them. It's true, semi-colons ARE addictive! 

[Christine (Blip)]

On the subject of grammar, is it correct to have a comma followed by the word and?

No

Thanks Ela, I didnt think so!

You can have a comma followed by 'and' in certain circumstances - it's called an 'Oxford comma', I believe - to manipulate the emphasis. If folks are interested in these questions (and I am fascinated by them  ) I recommend Lynne Truss's lovely little book 'Eats, Shoots and Leaves'.

 

[Hippykitty]

It IS correct to have a comma before an 'and' especially where the adjoining things are different:

"There were red ones, blue ones, and a bird ate the green ones."

Many writers would use a semi-colon in that context, but many readers don't understand them. I was editing Desley's passage to make it very easy to read.
Also, some respected writers (D.H. Lawrence, for example) begin sentences with 'And'.

I often have arguments with a teacher friend of mine who complains that her pupils begin sentences with 'But'; this is also perfectly acceptable.

The general rule of grammar is: know the rules, then break them if it serves the purpose. This is especially true of the hotly contended split-infinitive and not-ending-a-sentence-with-a-preposition rules.

"To boldy go where no man has gone before." This is splitting the verb "to go". Any other way of saying it ruins the drama. Try it!

[CurlyCatz]

my only experience of cats is mainly in north east scotland and in general red cats are most likely to be males and the red females always get thought of as rarer.

[Ela]

With gingers, 75% are male, but in some areas, you do get more females due to the way the colonies are.

So many different stats on different sites, isn't there? 

Obviously I can only state  my personal experience. Although it could well be a regional thing, as indeed are other cat related things. FIV for instance round here is is commonplace yet in some parts of the country fortunately. there is not nearly as much.

With kittens I also find that one year it is almost  all black or black/white, yet the next year it is almost all  tortie & ginger and other years almost all tabbies. Unfortunately we have more black or black and white years though. I think we are about due for a tortie & ginger  or even tabby year.

[Debbie]

On the subject of grammar, is it correct to have a comma followed by the word and?

No

Thanks Ela, I didnt think so!

[Desley (booktigger)]

With gingers, 75% are male, but in some areas, you do get more females due to the way the colonies are.

[Ela]

Torties and gingers tend to be gender related,

 

I agree that male Torties are are rare as rocking horse droppings, however, I think you may be saying most Ginger's are male, when in fact over the years I personally have over the years just as many Ginger females (if not more) than males.

[Ela]

On the subject of grammar, is it correct to have a comma followed by the word and?

No

[Debbie]

On the subject of grammar, is it correct to have a comma followed by the word and?

A litter of black and white kittens came in with their mum. This was very sad. Mum, a gorgeous black cat with white bib and paws, looked really healthy, and gave birth to her five lovely kittens, all identical to her. She had no problems with the birth, and for the first week, everything looked perfect.  But she started to go downhill, and the kittens began to struggle.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Cheers Hippy - will just swap some of your colours for the right ones if you dont mind!!! And the second cat - cat came in pregnant, and gave birth in our care, think you have got muddled there - but not hard, it was a bit confusing, and I really should stop writing stories without writing them out and sleeping on them first!!

Karen  please dont be offended, but I wanted to only include stories of cats that had come through our care on the website.

[Hippykitty]

Thanks MM, I'm always doing that, like forgetting the gender of a baby! (Did that in a novel once - not published, didn't attempt to!)

Changed it now!

Karenjet, that may be a good idea. The reference to the grey cats wasn't in anyway related to Lucas. I was trying to think of a way of distinguishing the litters. Torties and gingers tend to be gender related, and most litters are multi-coloured. But it needed a way for the reader to think "oh, those kittens!"  I was a bit confused when first reading about all the kits and mums.

[Millys Mum]

The mother was grey. She had given birth in Mr and Mrs Wood's garden

As it was, the mum was spayed and returned to live in the garden she had picked, as Mrs Jones

Mrs Jones should be Mrs Wood i think?

[karenjet]

Add to that the thread about Jasmine and her kittens. Although I didn't really allow her to get pregnant. She was a stray, but I could have taken her in sooner and gotten her neutered.

She needed a caesarean for the last kitten. One died when he was two days old. She chewed out her stitches and had to go under anaesthesia again. Things are all good now (fingers crossed) but Jasmine's one litter has cost a fortune, and caused an awful lot of worry and trauma for both she and I.

[Hippykitty]

Desley, I had a go at your passage and came up with this. Would suggest that you format it in double or 1.5 spacing. I've left out the part about FLV as this confused the issue. Maybe you could put a link to a page dealing with FLV and make it clear that it can be contracted during mating.
Hope this helps. Note that I've personalised the cats a little, as even I was getting confused by all the litters! Also, I've give fictitious names to the people who brought the second litter in.


If you are thinking of letting your female cat have one litter, here are some events which happened to us last year. They are examples of the upsetting things which can go wrong, and cause suffering to your cat, the kittens and your bank balance.

We lost ten kittens before they were even eight weeks old, and a mum died too.  Other kittens died after going to their new homes, even though they had been vet-checked and vaccinated. 

One litter with five little grey tabbies died because their mother couldn’t produce enough milk. So the owner took them away from mum before the kittens were old enough. We gave the tabby kittens round-the-clock care, but it wasn't enough to make up for the attention of their mum.

A litter of black and white kittens came in with their mum. This was very sad. Mum, a gorgeous black cat with white bib and paws, looked really healthy, and gave birth to her five lovely kittens, all identical to her. She had no problems with the birth, and for the first week, everything looked perfect.  But she started to go downhill, and the kittens began to struggle.

We had lots of expensive vet visits, tests and medication, but nothing helped them. We had to have the family put to sleep at the age of five weeks. All because the mother hadn't been spayed!

At about the same time, we had another mum and kittens. The mother was grey and her kittens were grey and white. She had given birth in Mr and Mrs Wood's garden, and they brought the cats to us when the grey and white kittens were a week old. They were kind people who knew that they didn't have enough knowledge to care for them.
 
When the kittens were only four weeks, the grey mum couldn't feed them any more. They were too young to eat proper food, so had to be bottle fed, which meant waking every two hours and preparing kitten formula.
 
The black and white family would have died horribly if they had been in the wild, and the grey and white family would have suffered even more if they hadn't come into our care. The grey kittens would have starved to death. As it was, the mum was spayed and returned to live in the garden she had picked, as Mrs Wood had fallen in love with her.

If you are thinking of letting your female cat have just one litter, there are many things which often go wrong. It isn't as simple as letting her out to get pregnant, then nine weeks later having cute kittens, who will, of course, find homes!

There are many emotional and financial issues involved.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Cheers guys, just what I was looking for!! This one is the poorer of the two I posted, as I had written the other one out and read throug it again, this one I typed straight into here, with no time between writing it and re-reading it. No probs on the time Hippy, I really appreciate you taking the time to help.

[Hippykitty]

As someone with a degree in Literature, allow me to give you some general advise if you're writing for people who may not have a high level of education and concentration.

Keep your sentences short.

Never use a long word when you can use a simple, short one.

Paragraph lots. Words like space: it makes the passage seem like less hard work to read.

Try to approach the reader through their common interests and self interest (for example, money: emphasise costs; or play on simple emotion).

I'll paste this into Word and try to play with it for you. If you combine my version with Lynn's, you'll probably have something powerful and easily understood. Please allow a couple of days for me to do this.

[CurlyCatz]

I think that was a misunderstanding of what you were asking desley.  I have proof read your original and amended a couple of tiny things ie comma's etc (i'm no higher english student myself so please be my guest and remove this post if you wish


For anyone considering letting their female have just one litter here are a couple of cautionary tales from our horrendous time we had last year with sickly kittens.

In total we lost 10 kittens and 1 mum cat before the kittens had made it to 8 weeks old.  To add to this tragedy some of the other kittens died after being rehomed all of which had been vet checked and vaccinated and I know we weren't the only rescue in the area to suffer with this either, there was something going round.

One litter of 5 kittens was down to mum having too many litters consecutively, she couldn't produce enough goodness for them and the owner then took them away from mum too soon, so regardless of how much round the clock care we gave them it wasn't enough to make up for the poor start.

The other litter (where we also lost the mum cat) was a very sad story - mum cat came in looking really well and gave birth to 5 lovely looking kittens with no problems, and for the first week or so, she was a really good mum.  But then she went downhill and the kittens were struggling.  After numerous vet visits, tests and medications we unfortunately had to have every one of them put to sleep at the age of 5 weeks - all because she hadn't been spayed. The vet suspected that she had contracted something while mating, he initially suspected Feline Leukaemia but the test for that was actually negative.  We also had another mum with kittens in at the same time, she had given birth in someones garden and they brought her into us when the kittens were a week old,  by the time they got to 4 weeks old she wouldn't feed them and as they were still a little young for eating proper food they had to be bottle fed while we tried to introduce them to cat food. The last two litters would have suffered more if they hadn't been able to come into our care and while we lost the first litter it was done humanely and they most certainly would have died sooner and not as peacefully had they been in the wild. The second litter would have died too as mum wouldn't stay with them to feed them.  She was spayed and went back to live with the lady who's garden she had originally picked to give birth in as the lady had fallen in love, but knew she didn't have enough knowledge to care for mum and kittens (and the best thing with how things worked out).

So.... for anyone thinking of just letting your female have one litter please think on as there are lots of things that can go wrong.  It isn't just as simple as letting female out, female coming back pregnant, 9 weeks later have cute kittens and then they go off to their new homes.  There can be a lot of emotional and financial issues involved not to mention the suffering of the less fortunate cats.

[Desley (booktigger)]

It does agree, and hopefully someone will read yours too, but I am only going to use our own experiences for our website.

[Ela]

hmm, not quite sure why you posted all that info Ela,

I thought it was more or less agreeing with you as to why people should not allow their cats to have kittens and the implications of it.

I did not realize it was something for edit before  it went on your site and that is all you wanted.

[Desley (booktigger)]

hmm, not quite sure why you posted all that info Ela, I just wanted tips on what I had wrote (as my grammar isn't always that good) before it goes on our website.

[Ela]

For anyone considering letting their female have just one litter, here are a couple of cautionary tales from our horrendous year last year with sickly kittens.

Sound advice Desley.
 
If only people took on board the implications of 'just one litter' on my neuter advice page I wrote:-
THESE  FACTS EXCEPT THE FELINE FIV  & FELV ALSO APPLIES TO DOGS
WHY NEUTER? Please pass this information to anyone you know with cats even if they are strays we will help.
Cats Protection encourages all cat owners to have their cat’s neutered/spayed. Quite simply there are far too many cats and just not enough caring homes. It’s all very well saying Oh! I always get good homes for my cats kittens, if that is the case why are we always so full and have a huge list of cats waiting to come in and where are all the tens of thousands of cats/kittens that Cats Protection take in each year coming from? And why are tens of thousands more put to sleep each year? Sadly most of them come from those so-called good homes. If there were not so many kittens available the thousands of kittens/cats that are put to sleep each year may stand a chance of adoption, and that good home you managed to find may have adopted one that has now been put to sleep. We appreciate that some come into care because of the owners ill health or a death in the family but the majority are simply not now wanted. Of course we are just one rescue, there are possibly as many again if not more being helped by other rescues. Please don’t be led into thinking that if everyone had their cat neutered/spayed they would die out, that is just not going to happen there are far too many irresponsible people for that. If there were a few less cats/kittens available would it be such a bad thing? Maybe just maybe they would be more valued and as a result of this perhaps we would not keep reading of the abuse and neglect so many suffer. Occasionally we are told I don’t want my cat ‘done’ I want it to have some fun, another word for fun is amusing, it is not very amusing when your cat gets a life threatening disease just because you wanted your cat to have some fun, is it?

At the rate companion animals are being bred, whether on purpose or by accident, there will never be enough homes. One intact cat can produce 80,000 off spring in just 10 years with only 2 surviving kittens per litter.

RISKS
FIV & FeLV  is rife; it is passed on from cat to cat by contact, usually sexual or fighting. Please don’t put your cat at risk. It is NOT necessary for a cat to have a litter of kittens before it’s spayed, indeed all Vets would agree that it is of no benefit to a cat at all.  It is just as important for indoor cats to be neutered/spayed as it helps to eradicate many forms of cancer, e.g. Breast, Ovarian, Uterine Prostrate & Testicular also enlargement of the prostrate and related infections. Cats will not acquire pyometra a life threatening infection Every time a cat comes into season her chances of Mammary tumors (breast cancer) increases.therefore indoor cats are at risk just as much as indoor/outdoor cats.
TESTICULAR CANCER IS COMMON IN UNNEUTERED CATS AS IS FIV & FeLV. It is also surprising how many people do not realize the males cat has a retained testicle until it goes in for neutering, if lest it can turn cancerous.

PLEASE NOTE: FIV & FeLV CANNOT BE TRANSMITTED  TO HUMANS

Another worry is that so many do not realise that a nursing mum can get pregnant again within a couple of weeks of giving birth. I have on a couple of occasions cats come in with littens already pregnant, its horrible and on both occasions the mums have tried to kill the second litter, I expect it is all too much.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Another one for tips etc please.

For anyone considering letting their female have just one litter, here are a couple of cautionary tales from our horrendous year last year with sickly kittens.

In total, we lost 10 kittens and 1 mum cat before the kits had even hit 8 weeks old, and some other kittens died after being rehomed, vet checked and vacc'd, and I know we weren't the only rescue in the area to suffer with this either, there was something going round. One litter of 5 kittens was down to mum having too many litters consecutively, she couldn't produce enough goodness for them, and the owner then took them away from mum too soon, so regardless of how much round the clock care we gave them, it wasn't enough to make up for the poor start. The other litter (where we also lost the mum cat), was very sad - mum cat came in looking really well, gave birth to 5 lovely looking kits with no problems, and for the first week or so, she was a really good mum - but then she went downhill, and the kitts were struggling. Numerous vet visits, tests and meds, and we had to have everyone of them pts at the age of 5 weeks - all because she hadn't been spayed. The vet suspected that she had contracted something while mating, he initially suspected Feline Leukaemia, but the test for that was actually negative. We also had another mum and kittens in at the same time, she had given birth in someones garden, and they brought her into us when kits were a week old - by the time they get to 4 weeks old, she wouldn't feed them, and as they were still a little young for eating proper food, they had to be bottle fed, while we tried to introduce them to cat food. The last two litters would have suffered more if they hadn't been able to come into our care - while we lost the first litter, it was done humanely, they would have died sooner and not as pleasant if they were in the wild, and the second litter would have died too, as mum wouldnt' stay with them to feed them. She was spayed and went back to live with the lady who's garden she had picked, as she had fallen in love, but knew she didn't have enough knowledge to care for mum and kittens (and the best thing with how things worked out). So, for anyone thinking of just letting your female have one litter, there are a lot of things that can go wrong, it isn't just as simple as letting female out, female coming back pregnant, 9 weeks later have cute kittens and then they go off to their new homes, there can be a lot of emotional and financial issues involved.