My "Found B&W Cat" from L&F post may have had kittens under decking (Sorted)

[Janeyk]

Great news Steff      I'll move and lock this thread now  

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

I'm in luck...there are NO kittens...phew!!!

I got the lady to check fully yesterday, so she down to look under the decking with her torch and also check the cat for swollen belly/teats/signs of milk etc and we're all clear.

I've been talking to the lady and advising her and she is going to continue to look after the cat until a new home can be found or CP can actually take her (in about 9 months time).

Now just gotta work on getting her checked by a vet and treatment for fleas and worms. The lady said she has a really big appetite (which is why she was suspecting kittens) but I'm hoping its just worms. Going to see if CP will be able to help with the costs at all.

Thank you for your help and advice (in particular Lesley especially with your kind offer of taking in the possible family). It was all a bit stressful for me because this was the first time I had been in this situation (hopefully it won't happen too often) but in future I will just come her for help and advice.

I will keep you all updated with how I get on with this little cat and the lady. Please can this be moved to sorted now.

Thank you all again xx

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Oh agreed, I know of one or two local rescue workers, CP and otherwise, who travel everywhere by broomstick.  I do suspect though that they didn't start out aiming to be Ogres but time and experience makes them like that.  I can think of times in my past when certain people have said to me "but it's your job to sort these cats out and you must come and get them NOW".... well no, actually, my job is managing director of a construction company - I just try sort out cats in my spare time and have no more formal training to do it than the next passerby. I do slip into Ogre mode myself occasionally when faced with certain people or certain problems but soon snap out of it when a small fluffy thing starts yelling for me to serve it's dinner. 

So... I'd start ringing around and try to find someone to take these babies and their mum on. It won't be easy.  Certainly grab any help you get offered... Lesley is a good start. 

Good luck... we will certainly give you any advice you need. Sadly I can't personally think of any free places. 

[LesleyW]

They certainly shouldn't make you feel like an inconvenience - some CPs can be pretty "clicky" (sp) the one in my town is, and even though I have been doing rescue here for the past 5/6 years, they make me feel like a thorn in their side.

My offer still stands if you need it.

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

The advice that you guys have given me on here was all I really needed. I had concerns about disturbing any kittens etc etc. I just re-read my email to CP and not once did I ask them to take the cat (why would I, I already knew they were full). But as soon as I mentioned the K word...the door shut.

I can understand that they may not want to come out to face a problem they can't help with...but hello I am in even less of a position to help...I didn't even have the knowledge on kittens etc. It would have been a lot easier for me to respond to the lady by saying "sorry I can't help, I only do lost and found" but now I am trying to deal with the situation on my own (so to speak).

I did think the chance of a microchip would be slim because if they cared enough to microchip then you would think they'd care enough to find the cat. But you never know, plus all 3 of my indoor cats are chipped and my dog and I'd be pretty annoyed if any of them ever went missing and no one checked them for a chip...so I thought I owed it to the cat.

I'm really just trying to help but have been made to feel like I am more of an inconveience who has highlighted another problem

[Janeyk]

If these bubbies are just new borns I'd be inclined to leave well alone at least for a couple of weeks and use those two weeks to come up with a plan. The last thing you want to do is upset mum and risk her abandoning them or even killing them because she feels under threat in her environment. When you have secured a space or a willing fosterer, then's the time to act. Go and trap mum and kits and chip present or no at least they have somewhere to go... until you do have a space, just leave food out for her. That'll help her a great deal and help get those bubbies off to a much better start of they get some decent grub in them. 

 Julie, when there were mum and kittens in the allotments behind me that's the advice from CP we have followed.

[LesleyW]

Mainly it was just the complete change in attitude when I mentioned kittens that really upset me

The other thing to consider is that yours may have been the 50th call she had that day asking for help - and probably 50% of those were people who just want rid of their cats .  I had one recently where a couple asked me to take on their cat as she was pregnant for the second time in two months and they couldn't cope with any more kittens.  I asked how far gone they thought she was and they said their neighbour heard her getting caught by the male a couple of days earlier.  I suggested they take her to the vet straightaway and she could be spayed in such an early pregnancy.  Turns out, it wasn't the fact that she may be pregnant they wanted rid, they just didn't want the cat anymore but also weren't willing to pay for her to be spayed before getting rid, so basically wanted me to find a home for a possibly pregnant cat.

As Julie says, since the RSPCA have refused to take in unwanted pets etc us smaller rescues are just supposed to take on their rejected calls for help.

[Mark]

A good supply of wet kitten food for the mum to help her produce plenty of quality milk would be a good idea.
(you probably know but kitten food is the best thing for lactating cats and apparently they can eat up to 4 x as much as normal)

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

I think you can put your pension on the fact she isn't chipped.  Call it voice of experience or what you like but for every 100 cats we scan maybe 1 or 2 are chipped and only once in all my years of rescue have I/we found a lost chipped unneutered cat.  If an owner cares enough to get them chipped they get them snipped as well. 

Scanning the poor mite is actually a small part in this equation and although not totally pointless the results of it aren't going to stun or overwhelm anyone methinks.  I would imagine your CP lady is only as human as the next person, and only has the same amount of hours in the day and wants to help all animals as much as the next animal welfare volunteer... but seeing a new mum and bubbies left to fend for themselves with nowhere to go and knowing there's not a blind thing you can do to help them because even your sock draw is stuffed with unwanted cats and kittens that aren't shifting as no one wants to adopt this time of years... well that kind of pressure has been known to send caring, dedicated people to the grave.  That is maybe what is worrying your CP lady... she scans the cat and then what??  She looks like a real, heartless  is she walks away, doesn't she? 

If these bubbies are just new borns I'd be inclined to leave well alone at least for a couple of weeks and use those two weeks to come up with a plan. The last thing you want to do is upset mum and risk her abandoning them or even killing them because she feels under threat in her environment. When you have secured a space or a willing fosterer, then's the time to act. Go and trap mum and kits and chip present or no at least they have somewhere to go... until you do have a space, just leave food out for her. That'll help her a great deal and help get those bubbies off to a much better start of they get some decent grub in them. 

Sad I know but them's the breaks, and it's got a whole lot worse for all other rescues since the country's biggest and highest funded animal welfare organisation stopped taking in unwanted/homeless pets. Everyone was stretched enough even before then but now it's getting biblical. You will see and hear about these situations more and more now... it's not because the rest of us stopped caring. 

[LesleyW]

I understand that they are full but, as you say, you are mainly after a bit of support at this time and they should be able to offer that.

I hope when you go tonight you find no kittens.  However, if they are there, post on here and maybe we can get a transport run together and I will take them down here. 

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

I totally understand that and in my email I wasn't even asking for them to take the cat in because I already knew they had a waiting list.

All I wanted was a bit of help with checking if she was chipped (which initially the lady was going to come out and do) and also advise regarding the kitten situation. I have now experience at all with prenant/mum cats.

As a caring member of the public I am now stuck with trying to work this situation out myself later this evening and I do not really feel equipped for it hence asking for CP's help but got the doors closed on me.

I'm also pretty sure they would have an emergency space i.e. someones bathroom or spare room but they have a strict policy of having rescue/foster cats in pens (so as not to put their own animals at risk) but what do they think I am going to be doing if I get there and the cat needs out...take it home and put MY animals at risk and put her where...my bathroom? Spare room? Shed?

Mainly it was just the complete change in attitude when I mentioned kittens that really upset me

[Janeyk]

Sad but so true Mark   

[Mark]

Unfortunately, full is full. When emergency spaces are full, that is it -  although rescues give priority to pregnant cats or ones with litters. The reality is, there are only a limited number of unpaid volunteers and fosterers. At any given time, there is always a waiting list. This time of year is particularly bad as not only is it kitten season but rehoming slows down to a standstill as people don't adopt cats before they go on holiday. Also volunteers have holidays as well - so basically there is a gridlock. I know rescues find it frustrating that people assume we have duty of care when we already help as many animals as we can - for example, Julie (Pinkbear) has kittens in her bathroom. We have even been in a situation where the vets have kept cats for over a week waiting for a space. I know we (and I'm sure others) try to keep a spare emergency space - but even that ends up being used. It is soul destroying that we have to say no to so many people. I do the phones on Wednesdays and I already know that we are full to overflowing. I will give out numbers of independent rescues but warn people that they will be lucky to find one with any space this time of year. Regardless of that, we still get calls from people saying they are moving at the weekend and expecting us to take their cat/s immediately.

We have sometimes used private catteries temporarily but they are always full in the summer.

For high priority cats, we would make an extra-special effort and see if there is any way of juggling - but it isn't always possible.

[Janeyk]

Best of luck with this and well done for caring 

[bunglycat]

Thats so unhelpful and as ou say cold too .
Poor kittens (if there are any) and poor cat.
Its people like us and you that do care and can make a difference though - good luck tomorrow and hope for your sake there are no kittens -so kind of you to go and check too 

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

Got woken up by an email to my BB, it was the lady from CP and I'm so upset and angry.

Now that I have mentioned the possible kitten situation she now won't come out to just even scan the cat for a chip. Because they are full so doesn't want the responsibility. She suggested I contact other local rescues but went on to say they will also probably be full! Great help!!

I thought that if I alerted them to the possible situation they may feel a duty of care to come out and help...especially because I told them I have no knowledge or experience in this side of things but they've just completely shut the doors on me.

I'm not even a rescue, ok I do lost and found but this is well outside my remit...I'm only doing it because I care. I really didn't expect this kind of response but guess they have limits and have to be sensible but to be so cold.

I am now forced to go tomorrow because I cannot leave the possible situation. I just really hope that when I get there tomorrow there isn't any kittens and the cat is in fact a boy!!!

If there are kittens and the whole family needs rescuing I have no idea what I am going to do

[LesleyW]

If she has recently had babies, you should be able to see that her nipples have been "sucked" or, if she is longhaired, feel milk if you touch her belly - it will feel "lumpy" but soft lumpy if you know what I mean.

If you think she has not yet had them, she will be triangular in shape, although some don't show until quite late.  If you look at the pictures of Miaow Miaow on "First Pregnant cat of the year" post, you will see how wide she is and that was three weeks before she gave birth.

Best to advise the woman feeding her to give her kitten food, the best stuff for a mum-to-be or recent mum.

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

Your right I can't do anything now tonight.

Hopefully the experts from CP will be able to go out to her tomorrow and properly assess the situation. I've explained the situation to them so hopefully they will deem it urgent.

If not I will go after work and before dance class with my carrier and some towels and treats.

I will keep you updated.

Do you have any tips for me in case I do have to go out...i.e. How to tell if the cat is pregnant or a new mum (I'm thinking along the lines of checking her nipples??)

[LesleyW]

Try not to worry too much - you sound like me, worry more about the animals people phone you about than the people who actually phone in the first place.

It will probably be easier to positively check tomorrow anyway when it is light.

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

But I was only supposed to help with lost and found lol

I was worried that things like this would come with it all. Just worried I could get out of my depth as I don't really have the knowledge, experience, equipment, resources or space. I just love all animals and don't wany any animal to be hurt, in danger or distress

I think the lady must have turned in for the night because she normally emails back straight away.

Don't think I will get much sleep tonight!

[LesleyW]

I've just emailed the lady to see if she can pop back and see what the latest is. Also asked if she could get a torch under there to see if she can see any kittens.

I now just wish I'd gone earlier so I could at least ascertain the situation

I haven't been doing petsearch for very long and this is the first time something like this has happened.

Don't worry, it probably won't be the last.   Once people know you are willing to help, they will be all over you like a rash.

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

Forgot to say I think the cat is pretty friendly.

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

I've just emailed the lady to see if she can pop back and see what the latest is. Also asked if she could get a torch under there to see if she can see any kittens.

I now just wish I'd gone earlier so I could at least ascertain the situation

I haven't been doing petsearch for very long and this is the first time something like this has happened.

[LesleyW]

If the mum is friendly and approachable and you can keep them together somewhere safe, then that would be the best thing I would have thought.

If the mum is pretty feral and scarpers when you approach the kittens it may be that she won't come back and then the problem becomes more urgent as you have babies that need handrearing.   These are always awkward situations and it's easier for me to say what to do when I am used to taking in mums and kittens.  The last thing I want to do is get you involved and then you are stuck with a mum and kittens that no one will take.

If the mum was seen running away with a kitten in her mouth, it is essential to at least see if she has come back.  She may have been in the process of already moving them or she may have been scared and run off with one kitten and not come back for the others, if there are any.  I think it definitely needs to be ascertained if there are definitely kittens there otherwise you may be worrying about nothing.

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

Thanks for your reply Lesley. This was my main concern, being under the decking I wasn't too worried about because I'm pretty sure that many rescue kittens have been more in much worse places.

The lady and I are both based in Kempston, Bedfordshire. I've emailed my local CP contact. I do not have a direct number for her just the main helpline which closed at 5pm.

Should I go to this lady and help her move the kittens to somewhere safe and quiet until CP can intervene. That is if there are in fact any kittens at all...

[LesleyW]

The main problems with mothers that have kittens outside is that they are likely to move them if they have been born recently - the desire to move from the birthing site is instinct and if she does this then they may not be found.

What area are the cats in?

[Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ]

The lady feeding the cat has asked if I could come round because the cat is under her decking and just keeps going under there and she is concerned that the cat may have had kittens under there.  The lady sexed it a female but hasn't yet been able to get it to the vets to checked if its chipped, female or neutered because her arm has been in plaster.  I had arranged for one of my local CP volunteers to go round in the next day or so to check for a chip and check the cat but they can't take it in because they have a 6 to 9 months waiting list!!!!!

The latest update from the lady is that when she just looked under the decking there was another cat under there but it ran off with something in its mouth...she is thinking maybe a kitten.  So i'm not sure if there is a family under there or what.

I didn't really want to go out to her on my own plus I'm a Petsearch L&F coordinator not a rescue so am not really equipped or experienced but if it was an emergency I would go out.

Would you experienced rescue people class this is an emergency?  I think if there are kittens then they should be safe in the ladies garden under the decking (although its probably not ideal). 

I really don't know what to do...I won't be able to sleep tonight and I will feel awful if there were little kittens under there that needed my help.

Any urgent advice would be greatly appreciated.