removing plaque

[Kay and Penny]

I will persevere with the Logic gel and Plaque Off, which will probably not do much good but will at least do no harm

as Tosker is eating and grooming without any sign of discomfort, I think his gingivitis must be mild at the moment, but will ask vet if any action is advisable at the moment

thanks for all the input - and a tooth expert will be a big asset to the forum, given the amount of trouble the little pearly devils give us and our charges

[Mark]

Thanks for confirming what I had only guessed at re harming the natural flora (amongst other things) - this would definitely be swallowed as it is sold as a additive to drinking water. I really think it should be banned. This product has now made me suspicious of anything I buy from places like VetUK, Petmeds etc. We (stupidly maybe) assume that anything they sell is approved and safe.

[JennyLynn]

i work with human teeth (dental therapist) and i have to say chlorhexidine is not recommended for humans to use for longer than a 6wk period, and is 0.2% concentrate of chlorhexidine gluconate. They add the xylitol in an attempt to improve the taste, but cannot add an artificial flavour due to it reducing the effectiveness of the corsodyl product. Another point to mention is that foaming agents such as sodium lauryl sulphate are contra-indicated with corsodyl and stop it working. I personally wouldnt give it to a cat even in a watered down concentration as the body mass of children is much higher than a cat and its not really recommended for them. It kills all plaque related bacteria but at an immense rate, and it would be difficult to prevent a cat from swallowing it, thus potentially harming their natural bacteria.
Another point to note is monitoring the parts per million of flouride in dental products, as this can also be toxic (even to humans)
As with most things it is definitely better to leave it to the professionals! under anaesthesia a vet can place safe anti microbial gels that will ease symptoms (we can do this to humans to!)
and advise on the best course of action.
I know you possibly know all this, but teeth are the only thing i know   

Jenny x

[Mark]

it all got poured down the sink several hours ago!!

At least your drain will be minty fresh and germ-free  
  Sorry Trigger. It does make me angry. I am surprised sellers don't look more closely at ingredients but then again, they probably think it is OK as it is made by a supposedly respectable company?

I wish I hadn't googled for more info 

It came up with an experiment to test it in cats ears. It said the 12 cats were depapitated after 10 days and the findings were the drug would have made them deaf at a 2% concentration  - I would like to decapitate these so-called scientists 

[Kay and Penny]

the dose was 6ml in 250 ml of water

I doubt mine would have touched it anyway

[Den]

  Trigger

I can't believe vetuk sells it. Why would they be selling something which could easily kill peoples pets  what makes it worse is it says 'developed' by vets. Which makes it sound OK. But no vet would put Xylitol in a product.

[Kay and Penny]

it all got poured down the sink several hours ago - should have asked you lot before I bought it!!

[Mark]

I really do think the Chlorhexidine will kill al the bacteria in the gut - I am sure they only get away with it because it is for animals and not classed as a drug. I will be avoiding products made by Virbac as it seems they only care about $$$

[Den]

Just had a look at that Aquadent and cannot believe it contains Xylitol and is aimed at dogs. Its known to be deadly toxic. I would never ever give it to a cat because I'd think just like many other things it would be lethal to cats as well.

That is so scary.

[Mark]

It makes your teeth go brown. I would imagine the xylitol is added to take the bitterness away from the Chlorhexidine. It just seems so wrong that animals are given it to drink.

[Fire Fox]

Trying to remember from my pharmacy day  ... chlorhexidine makes a very effective mouthwash, has both an immediate and longer term effect and there is a synergistic effect with xylitol. Chlorhexidine is truly disgusting, so I am wondering what they are adding to disguise the taste ... I just went off to see if I could find the minimum effective concentration and came across this: http://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/1996/winter/psrd.shtml
I paid attention as this is a university website, however chlorhexidine is also toxic to humans at higher concentrations.

Have you considered cranberry extract? I used to drink cranberry regularly for cystitis and noticed a reduction in dental plaque: I did some reading and found there are studies to support this. They do add cranberry extract to many dry cat foods so it should be safe in appropriate doses.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

The stuff in Corsadyl makes me sick if i swallow it so would not like to use it on a cat.

i think only a vet clean would help

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Sorry, Trigger, didn't wish to make light of the situation. But you know me, I couldn't help myself!  Personally, I wouldn't go to such lengths as I view products like that to not have enough proven success to warrant the expense. 

I can't remember... is Tosker a Calicivirus cat or not?  Either way, I'm in the middle of sorting out a FCV puss at the moment. Am looking into full extraction as puss is getting on a bit and it should stop gingivitis attacks altogether. 

I strongly suspect from past experience you will go through this cycle of gingivitis flare ups and treatment until such time as Tosker has had his teeth removed. 

[Kay and Penny]

it'll be a dab of Logic on the paw, or nothing - I wouldn't even dare to approach with a toothbrush in hand, let alone try to insert it into his mouth


typical though that Tiffany and Trigger, whose teeth are fine,  love Logic, and think it is a treat, and Tosker acts as if I am trying to poison him

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

I have no idea, Trigger, but can I come and watch you attempt to clean Tosker's teeth?     

[Mark]

I wouldn't give mine Aquadent. There are health scares about Xylitol http://www.naturalnews.com/025335_health_oral_health_xylitol.html  It also contains Chlorhexidine Gluconate which is the active ingredient in strong human mouth washes for gingivitis etc, such as Corsodyl. It kills bacteria so I assume it will also kill bacteria (good and bad) in the gut, upsetting the natural flora which could cause all kinds of stomach issues. It also has artificial colouring in. I know some vets are beginning to use sonic equipment for cleaning teeth which is much gentler than scraping. I keep meaning to ask my vet if they have it yet.

I also think it is a gimmick. If they drink the water, it will hardly touch their teeth but will be in their stomach & gut for hours. I'm not convinced and I don't think it would be passed if it was for humans.

AFAIK, Logic is fine as it is enzyme based. Enzymes only work on one type of molecule and have no effect on others so I am sure it is safe (not sure if it actually does anything though  )

[Den]

I don't know about the other 2 but Plaque off won't remove plaque on its own. It does eventually soften the hard plaque but it  also requires brushing and/or chewing to get the plaque off when its soft enough.

[Kay and Penny]

I have bought some Logic gel, Aquadent and Plaque Off to see if I can improve the condition of Tosker's gums, or at least stop the gingivitis getting worse

but does anyone know if there is anything in these products which would make using all three potentially harmful?