Topic: pre-anaesthetic blood testing (Read 13729 times)

Hippykitty · « **Reply #62 on:** March 24, 2007, 04:49:05 AM »

To answer Lynn's question....

I'm 48, don't, and won't have mammary screening as I check my breasts regularly. If I find a lump, I'll see the doc. I have already had a benign lump removed (it was called something like a fibroadenoma). I found this while in the bath, then immediately went to the docs. (The needle biopsy was so painful I wish I hadn't!).
I do have regular smears. I've had an abnormal one and had a polyp removed. I had to have yearly ones for four years after this. I go because it does not traumatise me in any way to go to the doctor's, whereas it does traumatise my cats to go to the vet. (Also because I know I'm at high risk due to having higher than average partners.)

Because of chronic health problems I have to go to the docs frequently anyway. But the health problems have symptoms, therefore any tests are done as the result of these; not therefore equivalent to the checks done on healthy cats.

Desley, I agree with you about the FLV vaccination except with a kitten unlikely to have been already exposed to the virus. In that case, I'd vaccinate without prior FLV testing.

Ela · « **Reply #61 on:** March 22, 2007, 12:41:37 PM »

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hippy i dont know how old you are but does that mean if or when you are of the age to need mammary screening every 5 years (or whatever the interval, im not that age yet) / cervical smears every 3 years you dont go to get this done as you will deal with the cancer if and when you get it ??

You know Lynn I had never thought about it like that, however as you know I am a big believer in the saying leaving it till tomorrow may be too late.

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #60 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:04:44 PM »

Michelle i might be inclined to agree with you.

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #59 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:03:09 PM »

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You wait for the sword to fall. I'd rather not know.

hippy i dont know how old you are but does that mean if or when you are of the age to need mammary screening every 5 years (or whatever the interval, im not that age yet) / cervical smears every 3 years you dont go to get this done as you will deal with the cancer if and when you get it ??

Michelle (furbabystar) · « **Reply #58 on:** March 21, 2007, 11:34:28 AM »

Quote from: lynn on March 20, 2007, 22:31:54 PM

ive never seen an allergic reaction to an anaesthetic.
i suspect it a) either had some underlying abnormality with liver etc which a blood test would have picked up or b) badly managed /monitored anaesthetics c) it went into laryngeal spasm and lack of oxygen lead to death.

Hi Lynn,
PM was done but nothing showed up -
My personal opinion is "miss monitoring" but of course i would never tell my friend that !!

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #57 on:** March 21, 2007, 10:32:15 AM »

lynn, cats can die from heart problems if they have an anaesthetic and no one knows about it - and vets dont offer a heart scan etc before an op - although there was a debate on the American forum as to whether it should be done, as that could be more useful than bloods. We lost one while having an op last year, but I do think it is rare with our vets, they did put it down to a reaction to the anaesthetic, but said you wouldn't know they would react until it was given.
hippy - I do agree with you on FeLV testing though, it is something I only ever have done if the vet recommends it due to certain symptoms, so only 2 of mine have ever been tested. It is also something I wont vaccinate against though.

Mark · « **Reply #56 on:** March 21, 2007, 09:23:58 AM »

Exactly. Luckily Clapton's CRF is "moderate". Knowing what I know now, I try my best (against clapton's wishes) to give him the best diet possible, bottled water, Fortekor etc, in the hope that we can stabilise or slow down the deterioration of his kidneys.

Ela · « **Reply #55 on:** March 21, 2007, 08:19:34 AM »

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as the earlier something's picked up the better the chances of beating it

Absolutely, and giving them the best possible chance of life, rather than bury your head in the sand and think if I don't know about it, it is not there or going to shorten your little ones life.

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #54 on:** March 21, 2007, 08:17:26 AM »

I suppose I take the same approach to my cats' health as I do my own - if there's something wrong I want to know about it so that I can treat it whether that be with conventional medicine, diet, supplements etc. I do want to look for problems, to a certain extent (obviously there has to be a limit to how many diagnostic procedures you put a cat through) as the earlier something's picked up the better the chances of beating it.

Ela · « **Reply #53 on:** March 21, 2007, 07:27:33 AM »

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As to the kit who died under anaesthetic. Cats die during ops for many reasons other than poor kidney/liver function.

You are quite right they do, but thankfully nowadays the anaesthetics are much safer and it is not a common occurrence.
In all my years with Cats Protection, I have only ever known one cat at our vets die while one under anaesthetic and that is out of over ten thousand, possibly more like twenty thousand.

Hippykitty · « **Reply #52 on:** March 21, 2007, 02:00:39 AM »

This is where I take a different attitude to many peeps here. If a cat shows symptoms as Molly did, forever, then I believe it should go to the vet immediately. But if a cat is well in every way I don't see the point in looking for problems. Polly, who is 20, (touch wood!) has only had pre-op bloods, one of which did show that her kidneys are a little under par. This is true of most elderly cats. It's just a fact of life. She still eats well and plays.
At the moment the moulting process is getting her down. At her ancient age I expect her to be a little frail. If she stops eating or behaves differently, she'll go to the vet because she has symptoms.
If a 3yr old slept as much as she does etc, I would immediately take it to the vet.
For the same reasons, I don't believe in FLV testing. It's awful to know that your cat has FLV. You wait for the sword to fall. I'd rather not know.

I know I'm on my own in thinking this. We've had this discussion before.

As to the kit who died under anaesthetic. Cats die during ops for many reasons other than poor kidney/liver function.

forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa) · « **Reply #51 on:** March 21, 2007, 00:01:06 AM »

molly had a tumour in her throat when we first got her
i was hysterical i couldnt even breathe where i was crying so much
i thought we were gonna lose her
yet she only had to stay at the vets a day and had a op to remove it then she come home that night ,
she did have symptoms thou thats why i took her to vet
vet said it was only very tiny and its good they caught it in time .

Ela · « **Reply #50 on:** March 20, 2007, 23:45:28 PM »

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Unless they are about to have ops, my opinion would be not to. But lots of peeps will disagree with me. My reasoning is that if the cat appears well, eats well, plays, has a shiny coat and purrs lots, then it probably is well.

That is not the case cats are very good at hiding an illness. e.g Trudie looked purrfectly well , ate, had a shiny coat, played etcand it looked like there there was no reason to take her to the vets, the only reason we took her was because the contents of the litter told me something may be not right. Another cat Tricky again seemed perfectly well. he ate his breakfast as normal but later that day when I served supper he didn't come for it and just sat in a different place in the lounge. that was enough to tell me all was not well, he was taken immediately to the vets and he has a tumor in his throat, it must have been there a while but there was no other outward sign.

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #49 on:** March 20, 2007, 22:31:54 PM »

ive never seen an allergic reaction to an anaesthetic.
i suspect it a) either had some underlying abnormality with liver etc which a blood test would have picked up or b) badly managed /monitored anaesthetics c) it went into laryngeal spasm and lack of oxygen lead to death.

forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa) · « **Reply #48 on:** March 20, 2007, 22:28:49 PM »

furbaby: what happened with ur friends kitten then ????
allergic reaction to anatestic????

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #47 on:** March 20, 2007, 22:24:41 PM »

shakin my head at some comments in disbelief of what i have read, thank goodness most veterinary staff are qualified these days.

but to answer mark

A cat is technically classed as geriatric at 7 and anything from that age onwards they say its a good idea to "think about it"
Definately before any procedures thats for sure but not to drop everything and rush to get it done but perhaps in the not too distant future i would think about getting round to it.
apart from anything else its a very good reference to have (ie gives an indication of how long a chronic problem ie crf has been going on for aswell as very early detection) and if all was normal the ideal would be yearly but in reality i'd say try every 2nd year.

No comment on my own boys coz ive been meaning to get round to their for the past almost 3 years i think since they last were tested

Seb im not too bothered bout but i really need to get around to fraser sooner rather than later and i have suspicions as to what the results will hold altho he seem perfectly well (thats a point, when i get the results i'll look for this thread and post the results

) but first things first, i got a grey to get bloods done on and a ga/dental so will be doing that next month when hubby off and i can get a car too put him in...great forward thinking hubby bought me a saloon even tho i said i wanted a hatchback..now how do i fit a grey in a saloon car

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #46 on:** March 20, 2007, 21:19:34 PM »

lol - well I dont' know that there's much point in my repeating what I said on the last thread - but basically I disagree that if a cat looks well it probably is well and I think blood tests are a good idea when a cat gets older. You'd never know that Jaffa has potentially high values by looking at him. I'm not sure at what age I would start having blood tests done but Jaffa is 9 and I wanted a full senior panel done on him regardless of the fact that he had highish levels of urea and creatinine discovered when he had his pre dental blood tests. Cats are generally considered senior at about age 8 so in the absence of other symptoms I'd have them tested at about that age, or sooner if they're having an op or there are any other indicators that there might be something wrong.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #45 on:** March 20, 2007, 21:16:55 PM »

I personally think 7 is too young to start on annual blood tests - but Clapton showed that even at that age, they can start showing health issues, and as you found out, his was picked up before anything started showing. It is good if you can have some done while they are young and healthy though, so you have a baseline to go off.
After seeing a cat suffer because an owner didn't have blood tests done (various reasons), despite the cat obviously being ill, I am glad that I am an overprotective mum who tries to do the best by mine by putting them through a yearly blood test - unless there is a health issue, I dont go as far as 6 monthly bloods though. Cats can lose 75% of their liver and kidney function before you would notice any symptoms, I want to be able to pick up on things like that a lot sooner, as they can then have a longer life with symptoms managed.

chimpzoo · « **Reply #44 on:** March 20, 2007, 20:58:51 PM »

Quote from: Hippykitty on March 20, 2007, 20:57:03 PM

if the cat appears well, eats well, plays, has a shiny coat and purrs lots, then it probably is well. It's like the old "if it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, looks like a duck, then it probably IS a duck!".

oh no, it's all going to kick off again!

does anyone know any good jokes?

Hippykitty · « **Reply #43 on:** March 20, 2007, 20:57:03 PM »

Unless they are about to have ops, my opinion would be not to. But lots of peeps will disagree with me. My reasoning is that if the cat appears well, eats well, plays, has a shiny coat and purrs lots, then it probably is well. It's like the old "if it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, looks like a duck, then it probably IS a duck!".

Mark · « **Reply #42 on:** March 20, 2007, 20:50:11 PM »

As it's on the same thread, should I ask for Kylie & Willow to have bloods done as they never have. I don't know if Willow had bloods done when she was in isolation before coming over from France. Kylie came from CP so probably never had them done either - they are both 7ish

Michelle (furbabystar) · « **Reply #41 on:** March 20, 2007, 20:29:48 PM »

Quote from: Hippykitty on March 20, 2007, 19:44:56 PM

I don't believe that a kitten should have pre-op bloods.

As for doing pre-op bloods on a 6mth old, I wouldn't bother. Save the kit the hassle of having blood taken, and yourself the expense and worry.
Chances are, all will be well anyway, and your kitten will have been mauled for nothing.

My friends kitten ^Solaman^ died while being neutered, think she would have preferred for him to have been "mauled" and still be alive now !

Ela · « **Reply #40 on:** March 20, 2007, 20:17:37 PM »

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I do think that there is a danger of being over-protective. Sometimes cats muddle through perfectly well even if they have borderline health problems. But discovering these problems can cause stress and make the cat worse.

I personally would rather be over protective with my little ones. I would not want them to muddle through if they have a borderline problem, often nipped in the bud ailments can be completely cured. I fail to see how discovering a problem can cause stress and make the cat worse. Yes, an owner will be upset but at least if we know about a problem we have a chance to put it right. The only time a cat would get worse is if an owner did not take the cat to the vet so a potential problem was not found found and the cat did not receive treatment.

Hippykitty · « **Reply #39 on:** March 20, 2007, 19:44:56 PM »

I don't believe that a kitten should have pre-op bloods.
When Polly - 18 at the time - was due to have a lump removed, she had pre-op tests because of concerns about her age. The tests showed that her kidneys weren't working at 100% but I told the vet to go ahead anyway, figuring that the unknown nature of the lump was more dangerous to her than the risks of the anaesthetic. She was fine and the lump was fine.

I do think that there is a danger of being over-protective. Sometimes cats muddle through perfectly well even if they have borderline health problems. But discovering these problems can cause stress and make the cat worse.

As for doing pre-op bloods on a 6mth old, I wouldn't bother. Save the kit the hassle of having blood taken, and yourself the expense and worry.
Chances are, all will be well anyway, and your kitten will have been mauled for nothing.
Go straight for the spay.
That's what I'd do.

forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa) · « **Reply #38 on:** March 20, 2007, 16:49:56 PM »

I Am Chilled

Michelle (furbabystar) · « **Reply #37 on:** March 20, 2007, 13:46:21 PM »

CHILL OUT LADIES

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #36 on:** March 20, 2007, 13:43:07 PM »

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i thought this thread was to give opinions to try n help people

Which is precisely what informing people of the correct facts and allowing them to make up their own mind does.

Ela · « **Reply #35 on:** March 20, 2007, 13:41:02 PM »

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well every opinon i have or make is often jumped on by someone saying its wrong

Don't worry about it we all suffer from that occasionally.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #34 on:** March 20, 2007, 13:22:52 PM »

I have to say I cringed too, but just put that what you see isn't always a true indication - I remember with Snowy, I thought she was looking quite thin (she had liver probs), yet everyone who came to the house said 'oh, she is fine, it is just old age', and even when she started picking at her food (not that unknown for her), my neighbour (who I still looked to for advice then) told me it was nothing to worry about, when I had her blood tested, it showed that her liver prob had got worse, and even the day before her final visit, she looked fine - if I showed you her final pic, you wouldn't know there was anything wrong with her at all, yet she had a liver prob that hadn't responded to meds, and even by feel, her liver had got worse in a 2 week period. Admittedly, this is highly unlikely to happen in a young cat, she was 13ish. And PEbbles had 3 blood tests cos even the vet was convinced there was something going on by the look of her, yet they all came back clear, so it just shows you never can tell.

forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa) · « **Reply #33 on:** March 20, 2007, 13:02:17 PM »

Ela : im sorry but i dont think it is rude
its only as rude as the comment lynn said in the first place which was " it made me cringe at what forever just said "

i thought this thread was to give opinions to try n help people

well every opinon i have or make is often jumped on by someone saying its wrong

ive just rang 3 different vets in portsmouth and ask for info about pre anaesthic testing and was told the same thing by all of them

when someone gives someone an opinion
no body should be saying its wrong or right
as its just an opinon at the end of the day .

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #32 on:** March 20, 2007, 11:02:47 AM »

yep my archie was prob close to 2k within really a week .. that was being kept for a night and tests done at dick vet in edinburgh mind you on top of my boss's bill.

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #31 on:** March 20, 2007, 10:34:28 AM »

It was, Lynn and I no longer have a copy (think I sent it to the insurance company without photocopying it) but when I saw everything itemised out I could see how it had mounted up and no individiual thing seemed overly high. I think the out of hours intensive care treatment and round the clock nursing made up the bulk of it, but there was also stuff like xrays, iv drips etc. Petplan paid it all minus £60 excess and didn't quibble over any of it. I'm just glad in a way that he didn't get to have the injections he was going to have to disperse the blood clot (he deteriorated before she could give those) as those were going to be several hundred pounds per shot and he would need "several" - so that would have been on top of the original bill! Thank god for insurance.

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #30 on:** March 20, 2007, 10:26:11 AM »

blimey susanne thats a MASSIVE bill for 5 hours treatment.

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #29 on:** March 20, 2007, 10:11:03 AM »

I would expect overnight hospitalisation to cost quite a lot, tbh, although I suppose it does depend on whether there was anyone with him. I know that was one of the biggests costs when Magpie died - the iintensive care overnight. He was only at the vets for about 5 hours but his treatment cost nearly £2000! Sounds a lot but when it was broken down I could see where it went. There was someone with him all the time and it was out of hours treatment.

Ela · « **Reply #28 on:** March 20, 2007, 09:16:47 AM »

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cat was kept in overnight for rehydration for failing kidneys and died. They got a bill for £300

£300 for a consultation, bloods, i nights hospitalisation and re-hydration seems a bit steep.

It could have been the bloods that surely must have been taken indicated to the vet that the cat may have had a chance.

Mark · « **Reply #27 on:** March 20, 2007, 08:54:57 AM »

Quote from: lynn on March 20, 2007, 08:41:28 AM

[quote

Mark -- Clapton cleary must have had the full blood biochem and poss haematology done..a pre ga profile is less things looked at basically.

I wasn't consulted about this but if it was in his best interest I'm happy for it to be done. One of my friends has stopped using this vet as she says although he is a good vet, he does like to do all possible chargeable work. She has an issue where her partner's 14 year old cat was kept in overnight for rehydration for failing kidneys and died. They got a bill for £300 - she believes that he will carry on even when there is very little hope. She has a good medical background (She went from junior nurse to now assistant director of nursing with 30 years experience). She warned me that if I am ever in the position, I will need to make the judgement as the vet won't.

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #26 on:** March 20, 2007, 08:41:28 AM »

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when it comes down to it where charities etc are involved then a certain degree of weighing up the risks must be considered ie the small chance of not doing a blood test to the much higher chance of not doing the neuterings and the implications that has.

I agree'd with you ela and yes thanks for your aknowledgement but i'll never pretend to know more than i do nor forget the fact that ive been not working for 5 years altho that doesnt mean i suddenly lost any knowledge i had and i have continued to keep a "semi interest".

Mark -- Clapton cleary must have had the full blood biochem and poss haematology done..a pre ga profile is less things looked at basically.

Ela · « **Reply #25 on:** March 20, 2007, 08:19:51 AM »

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because an animal APPEARS healthy doesnt mean to say their organs are performing 100% you cant tell outwardly whats going on internally

You are quite right, but with the cost rescues I think would struggle to have all cats bloods taken, it think here it is almost £30.
Although my own cats are always tested, then again they are older, I think I would air on the side of caution even if they were younger.

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Just because u r neurotic doesn't mean everyone has to be

I personally think that comment is uncalled for and quite rude, you have to remember that Lynn was a Vet Nurse and knows better than many of us the implications of bloods being taken.

Mark · « **Reply #24 on:** March 20, 2007, 08:06:59 AM »

The pre test clapton had done is computerized and it listed about 20 different things and the boxes showed red if the readings were abnormal on any of them.

CurlyCatz · « **Reply #23 on:** March 19, 2007, 22:48:10 PM »

Des it was only 5 years ago i worked and dont think inflation has gone up that much LOL..when i was working they were around 25 pounds i think and i guess we might be abit cheaper than some of your bigger cities in england..prob be around 30 now i'd guess.

michelle no they dont just check renal function. a basic pre ga profile (which a vet can make up and decide what their standard profiles are so this isnt set in stone) but you can buy the boxes of just Idexx pre ga (which i suppose most vets will do) and those test are

Alkaline Phosphatase, Alanine transaminase , blood urea nitrogen, Creatinine, glucose, total protein
so basically liver/renal/blood glucose

Author Topic: pre-anaesthetic blood testing (Read 13729 times)