News article about CPL finances

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

We know it is the cats who will suffer if money stops coming in 

This is the same for any rescue including the RSPCA.   As far as our local branch goes the money is well spent and goes on the animals, they help a lot with the ferals and they are always quick to donate to other centres when needed.  I know the RSPCA get a lot of bad press but when they get slated it does have an effect on the local branches as a whole which is wrong as I know personally the work our local branch do.  Any bad publicity for any rescues whether it be the RSPCA, CP or other rescues, it has a knock on effect for all and yes this results in the animals suffering.

[Mark]

We know it is the cats who will suffer if money stops coming in 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Mark.  It's a case of thinking about how this will look to the man/woman on the street who knows little about cats and next to nothing about cat rescue.  All they know is that they get a xmas catalogue through the post every year and regular requests for donations (I do as the result of having bought stuff from the xmas catalogue in the past).  If they have read that CP have lost a large amount of money in this way, and realise that this is only a proportion of what CP have stashed away, they may think twice about whether they will support CP.  It would be naiive to think otherwise.  I hope it doesn't have an adverse effect on CP fundraising or on any other charity, but I fear it may.

[Mark]

Well the silly shortsighted ones won't be donating anyway?

Don't be so sure of that.  It's not a case of whether CP are right to invest money in this way - I for one am not criticising - but to the average person on the street who hasn't any idea of costs, it may look like CP aren't in need.  This loss has highlighted something that most people were probably unaware of.  And it would be a real shame if that affected future donations.

Even though the accounts are on the website for anyone to see. Admittedly most people don't look at annual reports etc but it has been there all the time showing exactly what the money is there for.

[Mark]

As Ela said, until this happened people were being advised to invest their money with Icebank and nobody saw this coming.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Well the silly shortsighted ones won't be donating anyway?

Don't be so sure of that.  It's not a case of whether CP are right to invest money in this way - I for one am not criticising - but to the average person on the street who hasn't any idea of costs, it may look like CP aren't in need.  This loss has highlighted something that most people were probably unaware of.  And it would be a real shame if that affected future donations.

[Millys Mum]

They may be silly and shortsighted, although I prefer to just label them as ignorant, but a donation is a donation, even if it is from a silly, shortsighted individual.

How many (well intentioned) silly shortsighted individuals donated those many millions, those individuals keep charities alive so surely that money should be respected and kept safe.
You need capital to exist we know but at whos sake, the cats have lost out and people will think twice before giving again  all for a little extra interest.

[Mark]

Well the silly shortsighted ones won't be donating anyway?

I really think CP were doing the best they could with the money and whatever they do, they can't win. Maybe they should have frittered it away rather than planning for the long-term survival of the charity.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

The fact is that most people have no idea of how much money it takes to run any rescue, nor of the scale of a national rescue like CP.  They may be silly and shortsighted, although I prefer to just label them as ignorant, but a donation is a donation, even if it is from a silly, shortsighted individual.

[Mark]

I suppose there are a lot of silly shortsighted people around so yes they may think that.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I couldn't agree more, people are going to be thinking why do they need more when they have that sort of cash stored away.

It's a shame people can't think beyond next week. If it was run hand to mouth, it wouldn't exist.

That may be true but it isn't how many people will see it.  They will read that CP have millions stashed away and assume that they are not in need of further donations.  They may even think that the same applies to all cat rescues and that donations are not needed so urgently.  I fear this will affect donations to all rescues 

[Millys Mum]

All the same £12m is a very large figure.

And thats just 16%....

Its always greed that leads to putting money abroad where its at bigger risk, banking in the UK has some kind of protection, this economic crisis has been going some months.

Ultimately its the cats who have lost out if the money isnt managd to be scraped back from iceland. 

[Mark]

I guess it's all relative. The keyword is Sustainability?

[Rosella moggy]

I'm a trustee of a charity with pretty large investments (not animal related). We maintain a large bank balance to secure a future income stream to fund grants and to ensure future funding.  All the same £12m is a very large figure.

[Corporal Smokey]

I think if we read in the news that CP had an overwhelming kitten crisis and had run out of money, we'd only find people griping about the lack of savvy forward planning.

IMHO it seems that they put their money in the "highest interest" place they could find, ultimately to make more money for the new shelters and future investment. If it was recommended by the people in the know, I don't see that they've done anything wrong.

I tend to donate time rather than money and when I do donate 'money' it's in the form of something the rescue needs like bedding and food.

I know I'm a CP volunteer but I work for an independent rescue too so I get to see both sides. Sometimes the politics you get into by doing both make voluteering a bit less fun and I have to tell the independent I do it for the cats not for people in an office 

[wharfevalley catsprotection]

Living and working for CP in Leeds, the prospect of the new site with over 100 pens was going to be a God-send and now who knows?! It's taken years to find the right place which could either be built on or developed and in the recent months they had found one 

I believe that they have that kind of money there so that when they do get the go-ahead, we could have moved really quickly and gotten the damn thing built and up and running!

Looks like Leeds will now have to cope as it always has with a handful of volunteers doing our best. We heard that one of the other independant rescues is stopping taking things in which is a huge blow to us... Oh well, we've coped so long I guess we'll just carry on!!!

[Ela]

Thats what will do the damage to the independants    people like their donations to be helping not stashed away in a huge pile in another country.

They were not really stockpiling, they had placed the funds in a high interest account while the details for 2 new HQ shelters planned in Leeds and Ireland were finalised. Only a few weeks ago I had read on a well respected money site about the bank and it was recommended.

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

Agree with that also. And you know its only going to be the people that dont give thinking that really. It wouldnt matter to the people that do give.  I hope not anyway.

[Mark]

I couldn't agree more, people are going to be thinking why do they need more when they have that sort of cash stored away.

It's a shame people can't think beyond next week. If it was run hand to mouth, it wouldn't exist.

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

I couldn't agree more, people are going to be thinking why do they need more when they have that sort of cash stored away.

Mark you can only speak for your own branch of CP. My branch would happilly pts a healthy cat with FIV regardless of how fit they are.

[Mark]

I think that is a really simplistic view. There are reasons why charities need to think of the big picture and continue to grow. I wish we had an economist on here that could explain it but it's really not as simple as hoarding the money. If they took a simple approach of spending the money as fast as it came in, they wouldn't be as big as they are now.

If I have got it wrong, then maybe I do begrudge using my own petrol and mobile phone bill sorting out CP stuff 

I just looked at the annual report for 2007 on the website (I can't copy it but anyone can see it) It says they have reserves of 19.6million which represents 9 months operating costs. They are working towards having a years worth in reserve. They give the reason that this is needed in case of adverse circumstances. I would assume during a recession, the income could go down a lot - in which case, they need to keep going. As much as CP get slagged off, they rehomed 156,000 cats in 2007 as well as giving out millions £ worth of neutering vouchers etc.

If that 12million is off the 19million, if there is a big dip in income this year, the charity could go belly up which would be disastrous for the cats.

And unlike the RSPCA, CP never PTS a healthy cat 

[barney]

I find it obscene that any UK charity has that kind of money stashed in an over seas bank account, yet still has the front to rattle tins on the street. Even with the long term proposal of  building 2 new centers their certainly not going to invest all of that 11 million into the construction of these buildings. When people give money to cat charities they do so with the intention that the money will go to the cats, and not to be hoarded in a high return but high risk offshore bank account.
If however said charity decides on a special project like building new centers but makes people aware that that is where their donation will be going to, then fine if not then it's wrong. It's a real shame that the money has been lost, but the publicity will probably do more damage with people thinking twice before they dig deep into their hard earned cash...

[Millys Mum]

Thanks for the link Angie 

Also just wanted to say I think this will make fund raising all the more harder for us. Everyone always assumes that as a cat charity you are CP anyway. I've had quite a few people remark to me about the £11M and most of them are saying if they have that much doing nothing thy don't need more. and of course little old us get tarred with the same brush.

Thats what will do the damage to the independants    people like their donations to be helping not stashed away in a huge pile in another country.

[Angiew]

I always remind people to donate to their local branch not to HQ, they have enough money floating around to earn new with, the branches spend it where you expect it to go - directly on the cats.

12M is plain crazy 

Just to say that is not always the case. Out local cp was bequeathed £200k and HQ wanted to know what they intended to spend it on as they would take it if it was not ringfenced. CP said refurbishing the local shop - TBH I would hate to see a legacy of mine used that way (even though the shop is dingy!).
I also know our local woodgreen got some pressure from HQ when they had amassed savings of about £60k (they were hoping to raise enough for a shelter).

As CP financials are all tied up together, I'm sure branches do not have as much control as they think.

CP turnover last year was in the region of £35 million and dec 2007 they had a balance of about £65 million. legacies of between £20 25Million over the last 2 years.

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ShowCharity/RegisterOfCharities/FinancialHistory.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=203644&SubsidiaryNumber=0

you can download all the accounts etc if you want to know more.

Also just wanted to say I think this will make fund raising all the more harder for us. Everyone always assumes that as a cat charity you are CP anyway. I've had quite a few people remark to me about the £11M and most of them are saying if they have that much doing nothing thy don't need more. and of course little old us get tarred with the same brush.

[Ela]

A lot of money is needed for salaries, leases, new builds, neutering vouchers and the thousands of other tings that are needed

Also if a branch comes on hard times  and in an emergency they will help them out which is absolutely necessary to ensure the little ones well being.

[Mark]

I suppose they have to make sure they aren't going to go bust.

Yes you definately need some money as back up but 12M is an awful lot to be risking, people give money in good faith, its things like this that makes me suspicious of giving.

Apparently, the £12M represents 16% of invested money. I'm not an economist but I am sure there must be reasons where they can't run it "on-the-fly" and hope for the best. They have to think  of long-term survival of the charity. They had money invested to make mpre money for the charity. I think it was Ela that said they need to keep enough money in reserve to survive for 2 years. A lot of money is needed for salaries, leases, new builds, neutering vouchers and the thousands of other tings that are needed. I'm not trying to defend them but I think they are a lot more generous than the RSPCA who have a lot more money in reserve and yet still have the £60 limit.

[Janeyk]

Money , goods from the shop. even by volunteers. (Ex volunteers that is). One stole a full days takings but others have helped themselves over a period of time to bits and bobs. While I was away the shop was broken into and money taken also.

that's just disgusting 

[Millys Mum]

I suppose they have to make sure they aren't going to go bust.

Yes you definately need some money as back up but 12M is an awful lot to be risking, people give money in good faith, its things like this that makes me suspicious of giving.

[Mark]

I suppose they have to make sure they aren't going to go bust. Although in some ways, I agree with you as for example, we aren't allowed a shop as we don't have enough in the branch bank account. I forget what the amount is - £20K I think.

[Millys Mum]

I have to say that some of the comments on the link i agree with  if they fundraise for a future project then fine you need to save and people donate to that grand total but thats a heck of alot of money collected and not done anything with.
I always remind people to donate to their local branch not to HQ, they have enough money floating around to earn new with, the branches spend it where you expect it to go - directly on the cats.

12M is plain crazy 

[Ela]

Money , goods from the shop. even by volunteers. (Ex volunteers that is). One stole a full days takings but others have helped themselves over a period of time to bits and bobs. While I was away the shop was broken into and money taken also.

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

Oh I know, I was just refering to your earlier post.

[Ela]

Has this money been stolen?

No it was money invested in an Icelandic bank that collapsed.

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

Has this money been stolen?

[Ela]

I'm so sorry. It's a terrible thing to happen to any charity.

What is worse in my eyes is folks who pinch from charities.

[Mark]

Mark, I missed that thread - I'm so sorry. It's a terrible thing to happen to any charity.

No prob JS.

How many fetes will it take to recoup that kind of money? 

[Ela]

I forgot how much, it was yesterday I read the letter from CP HQ. Old age, bad memory. As Mark says the money was for long term projects.

I have been very lucky as early September I cashed in some of my shares after they went sown by over £1000 in 6 months and when I was deciding where I would invest I looked at KSF and very nearly transferred money there as t was well recommended.

[Yvonne]

Have they really lost £12M ??

[Ela]

Why on earth did they put all their eggs in one basket??

They haven't

[Yvonne]

Why on earth did they put all their eggs in one basket??