new cats not getting along AT ALL

[JG]

thanks for all the advice.

it would appear that the way to do this is slowly.... take it day by day.

i have used a cloth to rub all the cats with now so they should be getting used to each others scents.

Every morning when i open the living room door jasmine and thomas charge head first up the stairs looking for pepsi though.. so we still get the stand off and pepsi hissing. The problem now is that jasmine and thomas know that they are not allowed upstairs.. so they make it as difficult as possible for me to get them shut away downstairs before i go to work.

hopefully now i have a bit of time off work over christmas i can try and 'supervise' the 3 of them a bit better.

[madkittyrescue]

Hi John, Gillians advice (IMHO) is probably one of the best ways to go.  They need time to get used to the scents of each other before 'throwing' them together.  Any introductions should be gradual.

Just sticking them altogether and hoping for a great outcome just isn't going to happen all the time and cause a great deal of stress for all cats involved quickly folllowed by illness if you don't catch it quick enough.

I'm not saying it can't happen but in my experience this 'throw them in' approach only works most of the time when the cat being introduced is much younger.  For older cats take a gradual approach as your existing cat will be feeling very threatened.

Also, have you found yourself fussing over the 2 new cats and not spending enough time re-assuring Pepsi?  Another point to consider too is that Pepsi has only been with you for 7 mths.  Now depending on her temperament she may not have 100% become settled and happy in your home and has had 2 strangers appear so it would only be natural that she is feeling threatened.

As others have said re the 'Litter tray free house'  whilst this is a nice thought... it is in no way practical and many of the calls we take about cats weeing on the carpet, etc have been resolved by simply placing a tray in the house.  Also, as others have said too it is essential means of checking for warning signs of illness in their urine and faeces.

Good luck John and I'm sure if you follow advice given it should help your trio to mingle.

[sixfurballs]

Hi John

I don't really have anything more to add but thought if I shared some of my experiences it would give you some hope.

My first cats were Tomsk and Bronte. Tomsk got killed by a car and several months later we brought 2 kittens home from a farm as Bronte seemed very lonely. When we brought them home we tried introducing them and Bronte went nuts. She hated them and she spent all of her time upstairs for about 3 weeks. We did not segregate the house. Bronte just chose to stay upstairs and went mad if the kittens tried to come up. Eventually she started to come downstairs herself. Then after a few months we went away overnight for one night. Our neighbour was looking after the cats but they were all kept indoors together. When we came home they were all cuddles up together and were best of friends. A couple of years later one of the kittens (Dino) became quite big and decided he was boss cat. He and Bronte fell out and never got along again - they just avoided each other, but they were both still friends with the other kitten Harry. We lost Harry just over a year ago and Dino and Bronte seemed lonely without him.

In September I adopted Heidi and Huxley who were then 18 months old. I kept all the cats in together and followed the advice on here about feliway, neutral spaces etc. Dino came round to Heidi and Huxley after a few weeks but Bronte took a lot longer. For the first time since I brought Heidi and Huxley home all 4 cats curled up on the sofa with me last week. No hissing, no spitting, no edginess and all groomed each other.

It does take a lot of patience and to some degree letting them sort it out for themselves. I got the Feliway spray and whilst it is not a miracle worker I certainly saw some calm after spraying it.

Good luck

[unseeliechylde]

I think there's a lot of great advice here already, so don't want to add too much - except to echo a couple of points:
1) give them time - Riley and Skye are only now getting on well 70% of the time (there are still minor disputes, but nothing serious), and Skye came to us 2 months ago.
2) Feliway can help a LOT - not for every cat, but it's worth a go
3) Make a HUGE fuss of the resident cat - extra treats, hugs, toys, bowls, play sessions, litter trays, hidey-holes, the works. She'll be feeling insecure - If she comes to associate the new arrivals with an increase of good things, it should help her relax.
4) Try to set aside a "neutral" room / rooms, where none of the cats are usually allowed, and have them take turns in it to smell each other. have treats and play sessions in this space, so they associate the other's smell with positive things. Try a few short meeting sessions in this space, closely supervised, with LOTS of treats and reassurance from you.
5) try to stay calm, be patient, and keep trying!

Lots and lots of luck!

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I know that the intros as explained by Gillian were needed for my cats too an despite careful intros its only now, some two years later that Misa is excepting Franta a bit better, as long as Franta suddenly doesnt start sitting and staring again!

Every cat is different and I had two pairs, still have two pairs cos the pairs do not mix well.

I also do not like the oringinal resident in a house being picked on by two newbies that already know each other and I think time and effort should be put in too ensure that the original cat knows its still their house and they are still loved and cared for.

[Gillian Harvey]

I have to say, probably controversially, that I let my cats mix pretty much straight away. Imho cats are very clever and they know someone else is in "their" house.

Give existing cat lots of love and treats and if there's a kerfuffle, let them sort it out between them unless you judge it to be too fighty. If you're out all day then separation is safest and I'd recommend that but I just don't see that it's very nice for them.

I've introduced all mine the way I described (introducing single new cats and 2 cats together, several times to existing group of at least 9 cats)  - and I think letting them 'sort it out between them' is a receipe for disaster!

Its not a question of cats being clever, and them 'knowing' that someone else is in their house, of course they know! - but its about letting all cats (newcomer included) adapt to that knowledge gradually. Granted, the amount of time of separation can vary greatly between cats, thats for owner to gauge - I introduced Crystal to the others after only a few days of her being here because I gauged that her temperament, history etc would mean things would be fine, and I was right. Yet Millie took many months to introduce to the rest of the group because her temperament was completely different and my cats' reactions to her were very different to their reaction to Crystal.

[sheryl]

I have always done the same Smokey and have never had any problems apart fom a little hissing and growling whilst the "pecking" order was sorted out

Good luck, Im sure they will get on in time

[Corporal Smokey]

I have to say, probably controversially, that I let my cats mix pretty much straight away. Imho cats are very clever and they know someone else is in "their" house.

I don't think it does them much good to hide new or old cat away. This, however is only ideal under supervision.

Give existing cat lots of love and treats and if there's a kerfuffle, let them sort it out between them unless you judge it to be too fighty. If you're out all day then separation is safest and I'd recommend that but I just don't see that it's very nice for them.

This IS purely an opinion though and by no means any official recommendation, I'm sure there are many on here who will disagree  .

[bluecat]

On the point of swapping scents swapping their food bowls around can work as well give them a treat each in their bowls  when you do it so they associate it with something positive

[Rosella moggy]

Hi John. First of all

Others on this site can tell of no problem situations settling new cats with existing ones but I can't say I've ever had problem free introductions.

Don't know if it's because cats that have lived with me have generally not had the best of starts or whether it's me. My main advice really is patience and bags of it coz I positive that Pepsi will eventually settle with Jasmine and Thomas.  My vets advised leaving them to it when our Freddie arrived but our Tom is elderly and I just couldn't do it. I ended up sleeping in spare room with Freddie for 6 weeks. I have a very understanding OH thankfully and had to put up with Freddie marking his territory around the house which ponged really badly as he had only had his op just before he came to us.

I now wouldn't part with Freddie for anything and he is best pals with young Billy Wizz who he attacked time and again when he first arrived.

Unless they are really hurting one another (have you considered clipping Pepsi's claws for a short time? but careful to let them regrow if she is to go outside), I'd try gritting my teeth and letting them get on with it under supervsion and let Pepsi stay with you overnight with food and (sorry) a tray until things settle a little.

Have to say, I too would love a litter tray free house but not an option with our 18 year old Thomas.  What others have said about early detection of illness is also a consideration. I assume you have a catflap?

Feliway may help. We used a plug in with Freddie but can't say if this helped or not.

You say Pepsi has always been an anti social cat. Do you mean with humans or cats as there is a big difference. An objection to humans rarely also means an objection to other cats also.

I also agree with BC about making matters worse by fussing (I was terrible!)

Please remember Jasmine and Thomas have each other. Pepsi will feel threatened.

[blackcat]

I find that the more fuss you make, the more fuss the resident cat will make, so yes, remove the supervision and only intervene if they are going hammer and tongs. Speak soothingly when the are facing off, and sit in a relaxed pose (even if you are feeling tense) cat's understand some aspects of human body language better than others. Maintain constant soothing conversation when they are close to each other, and whatever you do, when and if they get stuck into each other, do not shout at them. It is tempting, I realise, but using gentle voice and slow-motion intervention reduces their tension levels. If you dive in, then they see you as part of the threat to which they are already responding. Works for me, but not for everyone or for every cat... Good on you for taking on these cats BTW.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I can only echo what Gillian has said

[Gillian Harvey]

do you think i should open up the house to all 3 cats and remove the segregation?

I would only do that under supervision for the time being. But first deffo invest in some feliway plug ins or sprays, make sure there are enough litter trays for all cats - recommended is one tray per cat + one extra, in different locations so that no cat is prevented from using a tray by any of the others. Sorry, but I agree with the others, its important to have litter trays, invaluable in spotting illness, and necessary for when cats are indoors at night, or when the weather is horrible outside. Also, make sure you have enough food bowls, water bowls for each cat, again in several locations around the house.

I have 11 cats and have introduced many cats over the years, personally my method would have been to start off with segregation giving all cats the opportunity to get used to each others scents and sounds etc before any face to face intros. Pepsi's reaction is not surprisng - think how you'd feel if 2 strangers suddenly moved into your house, I'm sure you'd feel a bit put out - thats how Pepsi feels! I would keep the segragation for another week say, in the meantime keep up with the Feliway, exchanging scents by rubbing a soft cloth around all cats face, cheek and chin areas to mix the scents.

Then try opening up little by little, only under supervision, if it goes ok thats great, if not, try again another time, just keep doing it gradually, if it eventually goes ok, put dry food down for all cats in sight of one another and see if they are happy eating in the prescence of each other. Build this up slowly, by increasing the amount of time spent in each others presence - always with supervision, and go back to segregation at night times or any time you can't be there to keep an eye on things.

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

do you think i should open up the house to all 3 cats and remove the segregation?

Personally i would BUT there will be different views about that on this board.
I can only say what i have done each time i have added a new cat to my home - and i have 11 

[Mark]

Can i just comment on the "litter tray free house" -

Same here. I never would have seen the blood in Alice's poo last week if she went outside. We now know its grass making her bleed. She has been switched to a sensitivity diet and is improving already in 2 days  Also there was a tiny bit of red in Kylie's poo last night so it is being monitored. It isn't nice but just goes with the territory I guess. I moved Kylie's tray outside in my old garden flat but never considered this until people started posting about it.

[JG]

I have had Pepsi for about 8 months now, she has always been a very anti-social cat.

I have had jasmine and thomas for 4 weeks.

I know 4 weeks is not along time.... but the severity of her objection to the 2 new cats is casue for concern.

do you think i should open up the house to all 3 cats and remove the segregation?

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Can i just comment on the "litter tray free house" -

It is best to ALWAYS have a litter tray indoors....its the easiest way to catch a problem.
When one of my cats used her tray the other night i noticed that she wee'ed alot of blood, Had i not have had a litter tray indoors i would not have known !!

Back to the cats not getting on -
4wks is not along time. It might take a few more weeks for them to settle down.
I would get a Feliway plug-in to help Pepsi

[Yvonne]

Good morning John and     to Purrs

How long have you had the cats?  it is likely to take some time before they all accept each other.

Have a look at this;     http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php?topic=4789.0

Good luck and keep us updated of the situation.

[JG]

I have recently added 2 cats to my household (jasmine & Thomas). The 2 cats are both around the age of 1. They are nice friendly cats, but have a lot of energy. A family member left the country of Australia and instead of seeing the cats get put into a home I decided to take them on. The problem is the cat I have had for about 7 months is not mixing well with the 2 new cats at all.

She (pepsi) is about 3-4 months older than the 2 new cats, but she is considerably smaller. Jasmine and Thomas are huge cats for their age. Pepsi is a bit of a bad tempered cat. She can easily turn and get nasty when people are stroking her, even when she seems to be enjoying it. I got her from the cats protection aged 9 months. She has obviously had a traumatic younger life which has shaped the personality she has today.

Whenever the 2 new cats come near her she hisses and goes for them with everything she has. The result of this is that we have had to segregate the house into 2 parts. Pepsi now lives upstairs and the other 2 downstairs.

After the first attack the 2 new cats were a bit wary of going upstairs.. but that soon changed and they quickly decided to work as a pair.. pepsi still hisses at them but they just walk past her.. eat her food, use her litter tray and lie in her bed. The poor cat is traumatized by the new arrivals to the point where it appears that her health is suffering.

We did let the 2 sets of cats mingle as much as possible when we first got the new ones.. but Pepsi spent the whole time hiding and not eating.. this lasted for about 2 weeks.. we decided to segregate them when we noticed how think pepsi was getting. I think maybe she is a very disturbed cat who seems to worry about things. Is there such a thing as a paranoid cat?

Jasmine and Thomas are just starting to go outside now, as we have had them for 4 weeks. Pepsi on the other hand will not even contemplate coming anywhere near downstairs.

The problem I am having.. well the problems I am having are as follows.

1.   I want to have a litter tray free house. This obviously cannot happen while the house is segregated and 1 cat cannot go outside
2.   I want the cats to be able to get on with each other for obvious reasons.
3.   As silly as it sounds I don’t want to drive this cat’s health to suffer due to the other 2 cats, which it obviously is.

If anyone could give me a few tips on what to do to help the cats get along I would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John