CP's policy on FIV Ferals

[Ela]

we struggle to find homes for ferals and

We have needed to take in another 3 this week, an old man (not living in a area we cover but in Derbyshire) phoned almost in tears yesterday, no one else could or would help, He and his wife are leaving their property in two weeks (it will then be empty) as they are downsizing and will only have a very small garden no more than 10' sq. What can you do? I had to do something so now we have about 23 ferals and no homes in the pipeline. To be honest we are now at saturation point with ferals.

[Ann Clarke (Tabby cat)]

I do sometimes think it depends on the area you live in, like Ela we struggle to find homes for ferals and I can't remember ever homing more than 4 or 5 at one place. We often get calls to help with colonies and we say we will neuter, trap and release and then when we get them in the people won't have them back and we have nowhere to put them, we usually end off having to split them or ask for help from another area. We're currently dealing with a colony on allotments where the people have asked us to help but then keep letting the cats and kittens out of the traps and then in the next breath are saying they want them moved  I wish you were near us Liz or that we had someone like you or Dawn nearby, unfortunately because we are such an urban area it's not likely to happen. We are having enough problems trying to find somewhere for CP to put a shelter here in the North East as there is nowhere available that is suitable. You may not be a one off Liz but sadly here aren't enough of you especially here in the North East 

[Liz]

Its a reality for us but like all things came at a high price hence I work in Dublin and Robin is at home with the kids

Huge mortgage, no holidays, folks who think we are mad and rather sad for in their eyes we don't have a life

Great vets even with discount a huge bill every month a food bill to make hair curl but in return we have happy healty cats and yes we have done the beans on toast week to do all this so as in life everything has its price and we glady have ours.

I'm not a one off there are others like me Dawn is one and she does more rescue and raises her boys and seems to have a good life to although it has it seems sometimes more ups than downs and I think like me she wouldn't swap it for the world but would like Saturdays lottery numbers!!!!

[Ela]

Ela there are homes out there for ferals we just sold our souls to have a place where our own cats would be safe from harm however the others have turned up over the last 12 months and as we were feeding outside due to the broken window escape last year we continued to do so and they now have our single garage with armchairs, food, heat pads etc and the Childs wendy house is also the same

Unfortunately people like you are few and far between, we should be so lucky that we know someone like you, unfortunately we don't. Most of the calls we get about ferals are for us to take them.

We went from being mortgage free to selling our souls for this and work to provide for them Ela and I live away from home to help provide this to so its not all plain sailing as Robin looks after this lot 5 days a week on his own

Again I say you are unique, possibly a one off.

Ela if a colony is fed and cared for in that manner most of the cats appear at feeding times and can be observed that way to - thats the reason our colony came to as noone could feed them and soft touch here couldn't cope with that thought and brought them to!

I would not argue with that but again it comes down to finding somewhere in a safe location and someone prepared to take the cats and monitor them daily, I  personally have never yet found anyone prepared to take on a colony. I live in hope as indeed I expect do some of the rescues in London who are trying to find locations for all the cats that need relocating due to the buildings re  the forthcoming Olympics.

I think many of us iwould love to live out in the country surrounded by cats, sadly that is only a dream.

[Liz]

A very soft touch and wouldn't swap it for the world

In fact my boss asked the last time we had a holiday away from home - I replied our honeymoon 11 years ago in October!

Home is where te furkids are and I look a lot more relaxed that my colleagues when I fly to Dublin on a Monday!!!!!!

[Bazsmum]

thats the reason our colony came to as noone could feed them and soft touch here couldn't cope with that thought and brought them to!

Soft touch = Big HEART 

[Liz]

Ela there are homes out there for ferals we just sold our souls to have a place where our own cats would be safe from harm however the others have turned up over the last 12 months and as we were feeding outside due to the broken window escape last year we continued to do so and they now have our single garage with armchairs, food, heat pads etc and the Childs wendy house is also the same

Unfortunately most people do no have the facilities you do. Quote

We went from being mortgage free to selling our souls for this and work to provide for them Ela and I live away from home to help provide this to so its not all plain sailing as Robin looks after this lot 5 days a week on his own

My tetnus and Hep A are up to date as I work in the water industry and as such get the injections

Ela if a colony is fed and cared for in that manner most of the cats appear at feeding times and can be observed that way to - thats the reason our colony came to as noone could feed them and soft touch here couldn't cope with that thought and brought them to!

[Ela]

I have ferals who leap at you from high places and then shred you when they land and have to keep tetnus up to date!!!!!!!

Cats Protection advise all fosterer's to always keep up their tetanus injections.

I appreciate what you say, however any cats that you come across that may be FIV and feral are well provided for by yourself and quite possibly you can easily keep an eye on them. Unfortunately most people do no have the facilities you do. In my opinion it would be very wrong to release a FIV feral with no idea how it would be cared for in the future and no one to keep a close eye out daily for its wellbeing. Most people quite simply do not want 'normal'  ferals  let alone FIV ferals on their land. We have at least 20 ferals on a fosterers farm now that we are desperate to home and have been looking for homes for over a year. Occasionally someone will take a couple but sadly not often enough and of course there are always more to come in, in fact we took one in this morning.

[Liz]

I have strong views on this as some of the Clan Cats ferals are what you would call unhandlable - Ace and Sailor currently inside and Cooper and Tyson outside

I also at Christmas 2005 took on Hissy Holly knowing she was a totally unyhandlable feral, she had nowhere else to go as she couldn't go back as she was caught creating a riot at a chicken farm and that she was FIV+

We opened our lives to this hissy manic tabby and the others accepted her and she soon mastered the litter tray and became a family member, our vets at that time did all the stuff spey, ID CHip, injections and FIV Test at their expense but she was only 2 and they felt she should be given a chance, and thats what she had, her only |Christmas in a warm environment with her own catnip sack and food when she wanted it she became friendly with Ace and Gracie and became an active family member but just not with the humans

She was drugged to move and did so with all the others and unfortunately died of FIV 7 weeks after we moved, I touched her as she died and thats when I knew she was going as it was the only time she never hissed at me

Only ours for 8 months but a truely spirited feral who fitted in and became a Clan Cat not an unwanted soul.

She was cremated and I did fall out with the vet when we took her for cremation as he siad well its only a feral we can dispose of it for you, No says I she is one of our ferals and her name was Holly!!!

How many colonies have FIV and are fed and happy without upsetting the status quo of their lives, I'm with Dawn on this they can live in peace and harmony and studies show FIV can live with non FIV without transfer my firnd in America had 14 FIV and 12 "normal" and her FIV have less health issues!!!

If any of our current band of waifs and strays test positive they will be released after recuperation back to their home ad life, we will still, love them, feed them and cater for any vets needs and I also Chip all mine to so that if they are knocked down they will at least come home for the cremation ad spot in the garden of remembrance as they are Clan Cat Ferals and as such get treated the same as our own

I have ferals who leap at you from high places and then shred you when they land and have to keep tetnus up to date!!!!!!!

[ccmacey]

MM yes they do. 

[Ela]

Ela, you misquoted, or misread, part of my post!! I said I would take in FIVs, I didn't mention ferals, as I know I dont have the setup for ferals.

Sorry I am still in a daze after yesterdays donation, well that is my excuse and I am sticking to it.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Ela, you misquoted, or misread, part of my post!! I said I would take in FIVs, I didn't mention ferals, as I know I dont have the setup for ferals.

[Ela]

could the 5 days of antibiotics be given afterwards?

Often a FIV cat will they need far more than 5 days antibiotics after an op after the op and usually a very strong one at that I know there is the long term injection, however, I understand that it may not last as long as initially stated and also perhaps not strong enough. Of course cats need to be checked after a dental and for a for a feral that means another anaesthetic and sometimes more than once if the healing process is slow as is likely in a FIV cat.

personally would have no issue in taking on an FIV+ cat and mixing it with mine –

In all honesty I am not talking about the odd one FIV true feral, I mean loads which there are. I once heard of a colony of about 30 that a farmer would not have back. Where could they have gone?

Also when I talk of feral I mean feral, a cat as wild as they come one that has  never been  socialized with humans, ones that can rarely be socialized. no matter how long you kept it contained and tried. We take in loads of what some people call ferals (we call garden cats), but we can tell the difference and after a few weeks , sometimes months they do turn the corner and can become domesticated and homeable.

The reason I don't offer help is because at the moment I am concentrating on my oldies

Perfectly understandable.

[Desley (booktigger)]

i think this is a very tricky one, as although it is unlikely to pass the virus on (although it can be transmitted from a healthy cat biting an infected cat, although it is a lot harder than the other way round), there are the health implications to the cat as Ela points out, and would it really be fair to release them knowing that if they start to have issues from it, the chances of it being spotted and dealt with are slim - even if you could trap them and do a dental, could the 5 days of antibiotics be given afterwards?
i personally would have no issue in taking on an FIV+ cat and mixing it with mine - only one of my current 2 have been tested, and only 2 of the 8 I have had have been tested, so I could have owned one without ever knowing about it. The reason I don't offer help is because at the moment I am concentrating on my oldies, and as they both have outdoor access, it would be unfair to take on an FIV+, but when I am in a situation to keep an indoor only cat, then they would be considered (although hopefully an oldie as well!!)

[Ela]

spose we see in them what unfortunately a lot of peeps cant

To be honest I don't think that is fair comment. I think most in rescue would say that all cats are equally valued but there are obviously different thoughts when it comes to what is in  FIV cats best interest when it is a true feral. If a rescue has just nowhere to put them where do they go? Or if they were to be released on site who would feed them and tend to all their needs, which as we know is often more than 'normal' cats. Who would be able to trap them often and take them to the vet so they could  check their mouths, for polyps in their ears, how do you check what they are passing? Very important for FIV cats.  As they are living outside they would be much more susceptible to infection especially as their immunity system is suppressed   and they do not have the  ability to fight infection. Who can check on them constantly to ensure no runny nose, sore eyes? As we all know these thing can flare up within hours. As previously posted a true feral will hide when anyone tries to get near so it would be extremely difficult to check for these things. Is there any one who posts on here that will say I can take in all the FIV true ferals that everyone on here tells me about and give the attention that they would need and deserve? I am sure if there was there would be many happy rescues and the information could be passed on to all the rescues countrywide who PTS FIV ferals.

We do what we can with the facilities we have and also we have to consider the cats we have in care already. Sadly we cannot save the world as much as we would like to think we can.

[Bazsmum]

Most of the ferals that myself and my friend deal with are regularly fed and are monitored.  If there are any problems whatsoever, we get a phone call and we go down and trap them and get them into the vets.

See my feral "Blackie" was a lone stalker.....did'nt live in a colony.....but probably would of been battered off another cat and passed on that way if he were pos   

....all he wants is food/drink & a nice warm bed.......

You do look after the ferals well Dawn.....spose we see in them what unfortunately a lot of peeps cant 

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

What I'm curious about is Michelle is in Kent and Foal Farm take on FIV cats. It seems the CP were very cut & dried about the whole thing in not allowing the cat to be signed over.

Yes i know, i have got FoalFarm to take in 2 FIV cats that i have rescued and they took an FIV cat (Issac) in for Sharon.

I cannot remember 100% which branch of CP it was but i am pretty sure it was the Eltham branch

[Ela]

Most of the ferals that myself and my friend deal with are regularly fed and are monitored

Although I would not put a true feral back for the reasons I have given earlier, I think a lot of the problem is that many people do not want ferals on there land anyway and once taken away for neutering will not have them back. So if it was insisted they return they would not get the attention needed and due to the number of ferals we have to deal with over a very large radius (the whole county sometimes)  it would be impossible timewise to feed them twice a day and to have someone to watch over them and also give them flea and worm treatments. Also as we all know cats are very good at hiding illness and it is often only because we know our own cats so well that we know something is wrong. With a true feral who dashes about and hides everytime anyone is on the vicinity it would be almost impossible perhaps only seeing  it when it  was in such as state that it could hardly move and then it may have been suffering for a long time and it would be too late to save it.

I appreciate this is a subject we can never all agree on and our opinions are often based on what we have to deal with ands others base their opinions on what they would like to happen in an ideal world.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Most of the ferals that myself and my friend deal with are regularly fed and are monitored.  If there are any problems whatsoever, we get a phone call and we go down and trap them and get them into the vets.  I honestly can't see why it is a problem releasing an FIV+ back into a colony once it's been neutered.  Most colonies, once they are all done are stabilised so another feral joining isn't the norm......all the ones I've done have all the same cats that were there last year.  If a new one turns up, that one is trapped and neutered and joins the colony if they accept it.  The only time I would have a problem with an FIV cat is, if it was nasty with others, the risk is there for transmitting the disease then but you will find most feral colonies live in harmony once the hormones subside.  And if you think about it, cats have a higher risk of being killed through being run over than they have of dying of the FIV.  And whose to say that these cats are FIV+ if they can't even get the proper test done   

[Ela]

I got a call from the vets later that day to say that he had tested positive for FIV and CP had instructed them to PTS.

I suppose who is  expected to pay the bill makes  the decision. Although I appreciate that if the cat was domestic and no other problems that would cause him to suffer it is not a decision we would take, but then again we have the facility for FIV cats.

If we were a branch that had no FIV facilities or those facilities were full and the person who took the cat to the vets had other cats and did not want to take it on,  what is the alternative? A terrible decision.

[Ela]

actually had that dilemma Ela....and have to agree "I could not".......would not be fair all round

At least you are honest about it. So many people call rescues yet would not take one in and mix it with their own cats. I too would not put my cats at risk  although had I no cats then I would certainly adopt a FIV cat.
 

Maybe peeps should be talked into taking on a pair of FIV + cats then as they prob dont realise they can mix with each other (I think? )

Yes they are fine to mix with each other, it is the only way we can save as many as we do. As previously posted we have up to 6 at a time in our 'safe haven'. To be honest I personally don't like to talk people into having 2 cats although occasionally we have homed two together.

I would also like to ask if these people who call CP if they help save the number of cats they do a year and spend £600000 a year on neutering/spaying. Even small groups such as ours help over 1000 cats a year which includes FIV cats.

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

Canterbury CP dont have a PTS policy on FIV cats, in feral we assess their behaviour and see if they cope well with being an indoor cat (most with time do) only truely aggressive cats that we cannot with hand on heart, rehome to an indoor home where he may not bit or scratch or worse have we had to decide to PTS.. We have only had to do that once in five years.. We have lots of FIV strays in (we have one elderly one in now, the vet said PTS because of FIV, i choose not too). Just because of his age and being a stray for years, he wasnt feral but he isnt domestic either.. Some of you will remember Isaac that i successfully saved... ! He went to Foal Farm, part feral but deserved a chance .. He is still there and very happy i am told, although still not social enough for a home environment...

FIV brings a huge decision for me.. I don't readily give up, but have to go by what the vets say... Many feral round this way are young and with time and patience do get used to an indoor environment. We do test all strays that come into our care, as i dont see how we can find a home for them if we dont know the status of their health.. Old FIV cats don't usually fight and we recommend a indoor home or enclosed garden, but we say that, but we have no control what people do after that.....

We try our best under difficult circumstances... But so far this year we have had around 12 FIV cats in our care (some feral some not), not one was it decided PTS... We hope to give abit of hope...

[Mark]

What I'm curious about is Michelle is in Kent and Foal Farm take on FIV cats. It seems the CP were very cut & dried about the whole thing in not allowing the cat to be signed over.

[Bazsmum]

I would also like to know how many people can say hand on heart they would take a FIV cat in and mix it with their own ‘normal’ cats

I actually had that dilemma Ela....and have to agree "I could not".......would not be fair all round 

Maybe peeps should be talked into taking on a pair of FIV + cats then as they prob dont realise they can mix with each other (I think? )

[Ela]

HOWEVER, With tame cats i actually see no reason why they cant live in a multi household.

One reason why CP  would not home a known FIV cat to a multi cat household is I suspect because if other cats in the household became ill or found to have FIV the cat CP homed would in all probability  get the blame and therefore it would be assumed to be CP's fault and they would be expected to pay.
If people want to take a FIV cat off the street and home it that  is up to them but I personally would not home a FIV cat to a multicat household.
I would also like to know how many people can say hand on heart they would take a FIV cat in and mix it with their own ‘normal’ cats, and if so will they be saying ‘I will take that’ next time there is an appeal for a home for a FIV cat.

[Mark]

Name & Shame! - Not something Sharon would dream of doing. I would like to find out who gave that instruction and PTS them!! 

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

You might remember me telling you about the cat that got my Issey pregnant.
I caught him one day as he was limping - i rang CP and asked them for their help.
I was told to take him to a local vets.
I got a call from the vets later that day to say that he had tested positive for FIV and CP had instructed them to PTS.  I asked if he could be signed over to be but the vets said CP wouldnt alllow it.
There was nothing i could do - so i went to be with him when he was PTS.

I'm not sure what is the best thing with a Ferel FIV, Ela has made a good point that as the FIV progresses the cat will be in discomfort and pain and there would be no one to help it.
HOWEVER, With tame cats i actually see no reason why they cant live in a multi household.

The stray cat, Tramp, who is now part of our family might have FIV but i have not had him tested - at the end of the day i dont want to know and it wouldnt make any difference.
He is now neutered so cant spend it by mating and he doesnt fight.

[Millys Mum]

Your thinking of FIE (enteritis) 

[Mark]

I thought one of the vacs was for FIV - shows how informed I am 

[Millys Mum]

I dont know as its irrelevent here    its not commonly used in the US either

[Mark]

I wonder why its in the CP leaflet then 

[Millys Mum]

Another worrying thing is in the CP leaflet, it said the test can't differentiate between an FIV+ cat and a cat that has been vaccinated as it detects antibodies. Very worrying. 

That doesnt apply in the UK where the fiv vaccine isnt licensed for use.

Yep that is my local CPs's policy too,  PTS if positive. I think every cat deserves a chance its not their fault they have caught it!

Yours pts domestics too dont they?

[Ela]

when lots of peeps are willing to take on a FIV pos cat 

Although most of us on here perhaps would if we have no other cats take on a FIV, in the real world it is not as easy as that, although we in Chesterfield had homed numerous FIV cats, we are now at a stand still and have not homed one for months, although every time someone wants an indoor cat we do discuss our FIV cats with them. If we did not have our FIV 'safe haven' the FIV cats would have been blocking up our Lindee Lu pens, then many many cats this year would not have received the help they so richly deserved, as we would have any had any room.

Having said all this the topic is actually about FIV ferals and in many cases FIV ferals and FIV domestics are sadly but understandably treated very differently.

[Bazsmum]

Another worrying thing is in the CP leaflet, it said the test can't differentiate between an FIV+ cat and a cat that has been vaccinated as it detects antibodies. Very worrying. 

  Surely they must be able to tell the difference themselves and know that if it is not a true feral it may have been vaccinated!  BOO 

[Mark]

Another worrying thing is in the CP leaflet, it said the test can't differentiate between an FIV+ cat and a cat that has been vaccinated as it detects antibodies. Very worrying. 

[Bazsmum]

CP in Stockton have this PTS policy 

When i took in my "true" feral last Nov/Dec time, the CP kindly done the test for me and phew he was negative.....they said if he had been pos then it wouldnt be fair on my cats and not fair on other ferals if he were put back from where he roamed.....i can understand that being a true feral.....but doing this to stray's "garden" cats is soooo unfair these day's when lots of peeps are willing to take on a FIV pos cat 

[Ela]

Cats are routinely blood tested for Felv and Fiv before they are accepted into the care of the shelters,

That I think is talking about the HQ sponsored Shelters and not about the 260+ branches. who are allowed to decide their own policy subject to they facilities they offer. What has to be remembered  is that some branches can only take in a handful of cats, although very sad if they are full of FIV cats who usually take longer to home, many more cats may lose their life as there is no one to take them in. Sadly it is a lose lose situation.

[Ann Clarke (Tabby cat)]

I don't know where they have got that from but there is a leflet on FIV on the CP website and it doesn't say that in there. Page 5 has info on rehoming etc. Hope the link works.

http://www.cats.org.uk/catcare/leaflets/655_fiv.pdf

Sorry folks I should have said that I agree with Ela's comments on letting a true FIV feral back out into the general environment. We would worry about the cat becoming sick and not getting treatment and we all know how difficult it is to find people willng to take that kind of commitment on with a feral. It's not an easy decision for anyone to make and we would try all possible avenues before we would come to that decision but sometimes as Ela says it is not an ideal world.

[Mark]

This is taken from Wikipedia description of CP - and this is "tame" cats  

"Cats are routinely blood tested for Felv and Fiv before they are accepted into the care of the shelters, and if they are found to be healthy and positive for these viruses they may be euthanasied if there are no available spaces in specialised FIV units (which some shelters have), even though the charity prides itself on a non euthanasia policy for healthy cats."

[ccmacey]

Yep I have been told from Ela that it is not every CP's policy to do so, probably just the ones that cannot take on a poss cat.