Topic: Diaorrhea (was Max is limping) (Read 14366 times)

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #71 on:** September 03, 2007, 23:05:16 PM »

How's Max been? Was he well enough to go on holiday? Hope everything's Ok with you all

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #70 on:** August 28, 2007, 20:02:15 PM »

thanks Sam and for doing the maths for me!

I' m going to have to get the H&B one as that's all that's near me and only have tomorrow.
I got some k/d down the little critter tonight and have sprayed feliway everywhere......he's now come to curl up next to me. Do cats eat honey?! As he's being so picky, I may mix it up with his bran capsule and just hit him with the lot all at once morning and evening. The 'little and often' meal thing is out the window. I just feed him 3x a day now as then he's so hungry he will generally eat a bit. tonight the minced chicken k/d that I'd previously banned and a mouthful of i/d. Hope they are the same in France, although will not have room for anything but cat stuff/food in the tiny car lol.
PS he just had a nice purr when I called him a hooligan.
thanks for your help and support.

Sam (Fussy_Furball) · « **Reply #69 on:** August 28, 2007, 19:23:35 PM »

http://www.naturalpetcare.co.uk/petshop/product_info.php?products_id=404

400 mg of SEB ...

Cats:
1/2 tablet twice daily
Use in honey or food to get cats to ingest the tablets.

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=922

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #68 on:** August 28, 2007, 18:01:38 PM »

The SEB they have is Thomson's powder (and some other but that's a 400mg capsule). Instructions are to gently heat it and add to food. Bit of a prob if he continues not to eat.
How much powder should I mix in to his food? I was told by some of you and especially Helen about this before but my vet was hostile - now he's got no solutions, I feel I must try it.
Max is too nervous to eat I think. I fed him a little at lunchtime in the bedroom. While I was out, my friend told me that Swampy pinned him down by his neck and 'disciplined' him for too much miaowing.
I'm only going to try to feed him in a quiet spot every 6 hours or so. Also try to find the Feliway for tonight. Thanks for any help with dosage and ideas of how to get it down him.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #67 on:** August 28, 2007, 12:51:46 PM »

Wow, my vet's not heard of SEB. I may try Holland and Barrett as Boots didn't have it. Nor does my local chemist.
Max saw the vet today. He says he can't see anything clinically wrong so thinks he is doing a 'siamese' thing, maybe upset by our daring to have visitors and the bran pills could be making him feel fuller than he is. Max hasn't lost weight. There is a chance obviously that it is physical but he doesn't think there's any reason not to travel as things are at present.
In France they do a kitty tranquilliser called Relazine, so worst case is to give him that for 2 days or so on arrival. Max is quite bright today and had a good hiss at the vet too.
I hope later when all's quiet here that he'll eat. I think I will only go mental with worry if he starts to refuse chicken.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #66 on:** August 28, 2007, 11:10:01 AM »

Not sure where you get SEB from, mine came free from the vet!! IT does sound like he is feeling too poorly to eat though. Not sure about how much fresh chicken you could feed, as it doesn't have everything they need in it, I gave Snowy one breast a day supplemented with dry k/d to make up what the chicken didn't have in it. But, the vet would be the best person to advise.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #65 on:** August 26, 2007, 18:44:23 PM »

I'm going to try to get some slippery elm bark (sorry have been told but can't remember: which make is the best and can you get it from Holland and Barratt or Boots?) as soon as the shops open on tuesday. Max pooed this morning early so the Peridale's helped, but now he's refusing food - despite waking me up post the poo event at 6am for food, put it in front of him and he either refuses or licks half heartedly and ends up eating very little. He's refused all but a tiny teaspoon of i/d, RC senior dry and RC Renal chicken each and doesn't seem at all hungry. I have to follow him around with the plate as he's not been to the kitchen once today asking for nosh.
He's eaten some fresh chicken with a fair deal of enjoyment (about a tablespoonful) and a similar amount of k/d minced chicken - which I don't want to give him as it tends to bloat him and cause pain. But I'm going nuts trying to get him to eat! (normally he eats about a can a day of i/d; or 1/2 can i/d and the rest a bit of RC Renal and RC Dry and is fairly eager for food).
I don't know if he is feeling ill (he seems very nervy but we have visitors for once and maybe it's that) or if he's playing me up hoping all meals will turn out to be chicken. From time to time he will play, but yesterday he made some aggressive little waaah noises at me at the same time as purring. All mega weird and worrying.

He has a vet appointment on tuesday but has been checked over and there's nothing visibly wrong. No temp, bloods ok. Apart from the slippery elm bark, how much fresh chicken could I feed him a day? I thought of giving him that and the Peridale 2x daily??
Helen, the vet wanted him off the Pepcid (unless he's vomiting) for a week or so until we see how the peridale works. Then he thinks he can go back on to it.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #64 on:** August 25, 2007, 13:09:53 PM »

Fingers crossed for him. Slippery Elm Bark can also be used for constipation.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #63 on:** August 24, 2007, 18:29:54 PM »

Well the vet said he's ok right now to travel so we'll see how he is. It's a very tricky situation. The vet's given him some bran capsules to take and see how it goes. One marble so far

hope it settles down. Anyhow he got a good once-over this am and was pronounced ok so hopefully......!
If we go away, he'll be better with us than staying home but without us and plus I don't have a reliable catsitter these days; if we don't go this year while they are still fairly ok we won't be able to go away at all while they are still with us. However if they aren't fit to travel, then no holiday it is.
Btw he said Milbemax is the safest of the necessary treatments and would prefer it to the injection of Droncit if that helps anyone else?
I am going to keep shoving water down him as I'm sure that it helps. Thanks everyone! Fingers crossed the Max's tum responds. Vet said siamesy cats (he's 1/2) tend to constipation as they age.

Millys Mum · « **Reply #62 on:** August 24, 2007, 17:36:31 PM »

How did your appointment go?
I think you posted about going on holiday with him

If it were me i would be reconsidering travelling with him as any extra stress could easily worsen things.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #61 on:** August 24, 2007, 08:12:57 AM »

Keeping him hydrated will help, as otherwise the body will suck water out of eveyrthing it can, which can result in very hard poos. Molly has higher fibre food now, and her Lactulose gets put in her food, so she doesn't notice it, I wouldnt advise any other way really, it is very sticky so you dont want them spitting it out. I spilt a little and it is a nightmare to get rid of!!

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #60 on:** August 23, 2007, 17:07:27 PM »

6 days of katalax = small, hard result in the tray this am. I started him on Helen's Pepcid and have stopped the hated katalax today at least. He had an appointment for this eve but the vet's rang to push it to tomorrow. They said to give him a teaspoon of sunflower oil (????) which I may try later. He ate this morning but won't eat since. His tum's hard. I think he's got older cat, sedentary lifestyle constipation but am sure it is related to that internal bleeding/diarrhoea episode as mostly eats i/d which is meant to be for dodgy tums. His bloods were ok so it's something in the intestines or bowel. I really don't want it to turn into that megacolon I read about, so hopefully the vet can sort him out. He's not too bad in himself as yet, just a bit lethargic but watched a bit of TV this am and is asleep.
Very worried though about how to best manage this. The websites contradict - some say give lactulose and higher fibre food whereas others say that's the wrong thing to do. I am syringing water into him though as I'm sure drinking more helps (?).

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #59 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:19:08 AM »

Hi Desley, yes Lactulose is Plan B. katalax achieved a minor event last night but His Maxsheeshness won't eat properly this morning after having been given more of it (we're now into the 5th day and he's still not going properly). He's also learnt how to snap his mouth shut when I'm trying to dose him so I get it all over my fingers - I can only give it directly on to his tongue as he will ignore any food with it in. Vet said Max would hate Lactulose. How do you use it - before or after meals? ?Does it blow out Molly's tum a bit?

Helen - bless you, have emailed and pm'd.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #58 on:** August 22, 2007, 08:08:45 AM »

Have you tried LActulose? It is a syrupy liquid that they dont always notice - I give it to Molly, and she will happily eat it, despite hating anything being added to her food, or treats of any kind (so Katalax is out of the question for her)

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #57 on:** August 21, 2007, 17:44:28 PM »

Hi Helen, I've emailed you but will pm my add too just in case there are any probs with the webmail servers.
Very many thanks again. His Maxness will start on the lower dose with his katalax, which I'm going to have to keep giving him as 3 days hasn't sorted things out.

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #56 on:** August 21, 2007, 16:14:28 PM »

Quote from: swampmaxmum on August 21, 2007, 15:54:38 PM

Hi Helen, I got the vet on a lightning conversation and don't think he's really used it and was saying it's very strong, then said start 2x daily if you can get it for him and asap!
Anyhow as long as it is famotidine (at first they said yes to that and no to Pepcid so i said er, they are one and the same....) 10mgs he says to try it. Tagamet just isn't going to work. Sounds like I should start him on 1 per day??

I am so grateful to you and will pm or email you to organise if that's ok. Bless you xxx

Great news

Yep, it's definitely one and the same - active ingredient famotidine 10mg, I don't have the leaflet that it came with but it's plastered all over the bottle - famotidine 10mg. I would be tempted to start on a lower dose than your vet has suggested, twice daily is really the top dose and as with any medication the lowest possible dose that does the trick is always preferable. As with anything I would run it by the vet first though...

The easiest way to cut them is with a serated (jagged) knife, I used to press the points down half way accross the tab (normally two jaggy points were making contact with the tab itself) and i would snap in half really easily, same again to quarter the tab.

If you PM me your address I'll send them off tomorrow, would signed for be better for you? Less chance of them going astray but obviously someone has got to be in to accept it...

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #55 on:** August 21, 2007, 15:54:38 PM »

Hi Helen, I got the vet on a lightning conversation and don't think he's really used it and was saying it's very strong, then said start 2x daily if you can get it for him and asap!
Anyhow as long as it is famotidine (at first they said yes to that and no to Pepcid so i said er, they are one and the same....) 10mgs he says to try it. Tagamet just isn't going to work. Sounds like I should start him on 1 per day??

I am so grateful to you and will pm or email you to organise if that's ok. Bless you xxx

now can you do anything about the constipation lol. Max has been having katalax shoved on his tongue without complaining too much. I didn't make a very effective hole in the tube so perhaps he's been getting an underdose but we need to get him going again - in case he's avoiding cos it hurts. Review due tomorrow and I'm off to make a bigger hole so his 1 inch of yukworm is thicker and a bigger dose. Vet says lactulose would work too but Maxy will hate it.

We are supposed to travel with them next week wed and there's the bank hol weekend when the vet's closed so trying to get them both well enough etc before tues pm...

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #54 on:** August 20, 2007, 16:48:48 PM »

Quote from: swampmaxmum on August 20, 2007, 14:59:34 PM

Do you use 1/4 of a 10mg tab once a day and is it before, during or after nosh or it doesn't matter?

Tiggy was on 2.5 mg (1/4 of a tab) twice daily - I used to give it to her at breakfast and dinner times but I don't think it mattered. That's the highest dose - the CRF bible gives a possible start dosage of 1/4 of a tab (2.5mg) once every other day. I printed off that page for the vet to see and after reading it and checking in their manual the vet was happy for T to try it at the lower dose and we gradually needed to go up to the highest dose, vomiting was very rare with Pepcid AC and towards the end if I was even an hour or so late with the Pepcid I could see she would start to feel sick, lip smacking etc

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #53 on:** August 20, 2007, 14:59:34 PM »

oh you are a star

Helen. I've tentatively got a chance to speak to him tomorrow morning sometime (n/a today so am just not Tagametting as it makes him sick). He mentioned that all the pills here were a nightmare to divide up but I don't think he knows about the US version. Brilliant. Do you use 1/4 of a 10mg tab once a day and is it before, during or after nosh or it doesn't matter?
I'm also going to ask him about antepsin. His Maxness is staying on katalax as he is blocked

despite vacuuming some boiled chicken yesterday. Def prefers boiled to baked btw. I boiled it for an hour so it was well nuked, poor chook. I daren't give him too much of that or that'll be it for canned food

but at least I know if he doesn't eat that, he's really ill.
thanks so much Helen. I'll let you know and sort it out with you x

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #52 on:** August 19, 2007, 22:22:31 PM »

Quote from: swampmaxmum on August 18, 2007, 16:38:30 PM

Brilliant, thanks Helen. I'll ask. I did ask if there were a tab and he said only for animals weighing more than 40kgs so you'd have to divide it too much to use, so maybe he's not heard of it. Are they both from the US or only the Pepcid?

The ranitidine (Zantac 75) is available over the counter in the UK (in human drug form), the difficulty with that is that it requires cutting into 8 pieces and it's an odd shaped tablet to begin with so quite tricky. The famotidine 10mg (Pepcid AC - US only) is a square tab and is really easy to cut into four, Tiggy was pretty much a daily vomiter until I started her on the Pepcid AC. The vet had given her tagamet but after one successful attempt of getting her to take it she was sick about 4 times in a row and had to take her to the out of hours hospital. I took the info sheet for famotidine 10mg (Pepcid AC) and the vet looked it up and said it was OK to try her on it - at the time (around 18 months ago) it was available in the UK so I got some from the chemist and we never looked back.

If the vet agrees to Max trying famotidine 10mg (pepcid AC) then I have an opened bottle - expiry date 08/08 - with 48 tabs left in it that I'd happily send you, it's enough for 384 days worth at the lowest dose or 96 days at the highest dose. I used to get Tiggy's Pepcid AC from the US ebay, it's not at all expensive and did Tiggy the world of good. You can get famotidine 20mg from a chemist with a prescription but as that tablet is double the strength of Pepcid AC (famotidine 10mg) then it needs cutting into 8 which again is tricky.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #51 on:** August 19, 2007, 16:21:51 PM »

Tagamet makes him vomit so I'll have to try something. I boiled some chicken today and I don't think he even bothered with chewing

it went down so fast so I suppose he'll now refuse all else.......

to i/d. Make a rod for your own back, woman eh.
will ring vet tomorrow about the other meds and get some slippery elm bark too. thanks!

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #50 on:** August 18, 2007, 16:40:42 PM »

Tiger has had Antepsin this week, you might also be able to try Slippery Elm Bark too. Good luck.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #49 on:** August 18, 2007, 16:38:30 PM »

Brilliant, thanks Helen. I'll ask. I did ask if there were a tab and he said only for animals weighing more than 40kgs so you'd have to divide it too much to use, so maybe he's not heard of it. Are they both from the US or only the Pepcid? May ask if Swamp can have something too - more vomiting from his cold I suspect. Mid afternoon meal all over the carpet

Has anyone used or know about Antepsin or Carafate (more of an ulcer med) as saw something on a website?
Max's katalax worked and he's been reasonable so far today, fingers and paws firmly crossed of course as until the 3 -4 hr mark passes, never sure he's not going to sit bolt upright and whoops. :hug:ssssssssssss to all of you too.

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #48 on:** August 17, 2007, 23:43:52 PM »

Poor Max

Don't really know much about the other issues but you could ask your vet about Ranitidine (Zantac 75) or famotidine (Pepcid AC - not available in the UK only from the US). They do the same job as Tagamet (vile sticky stuff) but are in very small tablet form. Here's some info from the CRF website on them...

http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments.htm#controlling_stomach_acid1

Bazsmum · « **Reply #47 on:** August 17, 2007, 22:55:49 PM »

Same here

Sam (Fussy_Furball) · « **Reply #46 on:** August 17, 2007, 22:33:49 PM »

Can't offer any advice but just wanted to send you a VERY BIG

and Foxy, Zephyr and Rossi all send lots of healing vibes and kitty kisses to poorly Max

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #45 on:** August 17, 2007, 22:26:56 PM »

he's done hard little darkish poos for ages. I just thought it was the food and his tendency to constipation. I'm so thick. Vet says not to bother with a sample as it will be blood if it's black or near black so is treating him with Tagamet (blech

but I'll keep at it) and katalax as he mustn't get constipated. He's been doing this occasional projectile vomiting since about Feb. Goes a month or so without it then it starts again. He's a plastic eater so we assumed it was some floating obstruction (i think there's another ancient thread on Max's vomiting....). The poo thing worries me terribly, although he seems well and his weight is still stable and he's been eating well. My mind starts racing to how it could be a tumour and I really don't want to put Max through anything invasive unless it's life saving and life enhancing. Vet says he would vote for supportive treatment, not really knowing what it is, rather than an endoscope at this stage anyhow.
I forgot to ask him: what's the best way to use that horrible syrup Tagamet? With or not with food, or doesn't it matter? I just squirt down the 0.7mls and he reacts with a startled

and after 5 mins he forgives me. You'd think they could do a vet antacid not with peppermint!
Also he was put on antibiotics after the vet saw blood on the thermometer, but today he didn't say he needed them. Can something like this clear up on its own? Max is 13. He'll be 14 next month. Vet thinks that is 'old' whereas I don't (and nor does His Maxsheeshness). thanks everyone

sorry I'm so neurotic about my little guys.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #44 on:** August 17, 2007, 21:44:50 PM »

Fingers crossed, but bleeding was the first thing that came to mind when you said the colour of the poo.

Beccles · « **Reply #43 on:** August 17, 2007, 14:37:33 PM »

Almost black poos can suggest that there is some bleeding in his digestive tract... save one if you can for testing

and get in touch with the vet ASAP.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #42 on:** August 17, 2007, 11:44:57 AM »

Max projectile vomited 3 times about 3 hours after eating this morning. Mostly food. He did some very hard almost black poos overnight too. Got to ring the vet again and try to get him to give Max some meds for his stomach as I just know it's not right. When he didn't go to the tray yesterday although he'd eaten ok I wasn't sure I could give katalax. Couldn't speak to the vet (couldn't get past the nurse). Now I'm not sure what to do. Supposed to be buying a hugely expensive Eurotunnel ticket later today - I just feel I shouldn't go away but we need a break. Over the past year he's done this 3 hours after eating vomiting quite a few times. The very dark poos likewise although when he had bloody diarrhoea it was light coloured.
I wonder if there's something in his tum and when he gets a bit constipated, it makes him vomit, even when he's been. All guesswork. Does anyone have any similar experience or ideas on what it could be?

Edit: vet has had me give him Katalax and Tagamet. The latter was not appreciated. I just shoot it down with a 1ml syringe. Don't suppose there's any way to make it more palatable? He was furious but 5 mins later seems to have recovered enough to complain.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #41 on:** August 16, 2007, 07:46:43 AM »

Glad they seem to be doing better - MEtacam is classsed as an anti-inflam and does come in an injectible form, my vet only gives that, whereas the rescue's vet gave Tiger Rimadyl, I do remember not being happy with it and querying it with my normal vet though. Fingers crossed you can find some food that doesn't cause issues and helps their organs.

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #40 on:** August 15, 2007, 23:30:37 PM »

Glad the boys tummies seem to have settled down

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #39 on:** August 15, 2007, 23:12:38 PM »

Fingers and paws crossed as they've had a can today each of i/d. Not the dodgy batch. I'd still like to send that off for testing, but no idea where.
The fish thing is if a cat eats exclusively or mostly fish. They need the B1 they would get from meat. I presume he means any kind of fish as long as it's just fish (?).
Rimadyl is very dangerous in dogs and he mentioned that it's a big problem in dogs, but he swears blind that it's ok in cats in injectable form and that he gave Max a low dose. He said there isn't another injectable anti inflammatory - you use that or cortisone apparently. I forgot to ask how soon i could use any arthritis meds.
My friend whose burmese has arthritis uses a collar with a magnetic device on it which she says really helps him. I may try that. Anyone else know about that?
Yup, he said Max's creatinine must be part of Max's make-up as he's had raised creatinine for a few years now. Swamp's on the other hand is progressively going up and cos I don't want to use Fortekor (it made him uninterested in everything and he just slept) unless I have to, he suggests that I try to use renal food where possible. I would give 1/2 i/d and 1/2 r.c. renal (K/d is a sure fire way to get irritable bowel for them both). I just hope and pray I can trust the i/d. The current batch I have of the big cans is much appreciated

Hope the next batch is the same (hardly ever is

to their QC). Thanks for the info on his readings being top range of normal. Vet says he has early CRF and with Max it's hard to tell so he wants more urine samples. Now if I can just get Max to pee some time not in the middle of the night......

when I can't get a sample!
thanks for the support again, so appreciated.

Bazsmum · « **Reply #38 on:** August 15, 2007, 20:10:02 PM »

Does the food not have an addy for if your not satisfied with it? Mind you would they admit to it

what about enviromental health

Hope your babes get back to normal soon

Ralph's mum (angie) · « **Reply #37 on:** August 15, 2007, 17:03:57 PM »

Quote from: swampmaxmum on August 15, 2007, 13:15:44 PM

One last thing for your fish eaters: he told me that cats who eat mostly fish must have vitamin B1 supplements otherwise it can negatively affect their brain. Just passing that on!

Thanks for letting us know that does he mean fresh, tinned or catmeat with fish or all?????????

Hope boys are feeling a bit better

Sam (Fussy_Furball) · « **Reply #36 on:** August 15, 2007, 16:55:52 PM »

Just come across this all about rimadyl: http://www.arthritis-glucosamine.net/article-detail.php?ID=132

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #35 on:** August 15, 2007, 14:23:32 PM »

Quote from: swampmaxmum on August 15, 2007, 13:15:44 PM

Bloods were inconclusive on Max and Swamp's kidneys aren't that great. Both cats have above normal creatinine (M 203 and S 197) and Swamp's urea is 10.9 so he should be on renal food, but it seems to upset his tum every week or so, leading to several days on i/d before I can reintroduce it. The vet says Max is a bit odd as his creatinine's been at around 200 for 2 years.

Those creatinine levels don't look too bad, both within normal levels (although high end of normal) depending on what the lab ranges are. Swamps urea looks within normal ranges too, high end again, but not bad at all. I wouldnt feed the renal food if it upsets his tummy. Don't know why the vet thinks it odd that Max's creatinine stays around that level - surely it just means that its not rising - which is a good thing I would have thought.

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #34 on:** August 15, 2007, 13:15:44 PM »

chuck away those pills where no animal can get to them! I asked the vet who said no way should pill form be used in cats as it's not authorised. However I spoke to him and he's adamant that Max's bleeding and Swampy's diarrhoea came from food. I still think the jab played a part. But I'm wondering where I can get a can of that particular tray tested as would gladly do that just in case. My 2 are noshing a lot of i/d with all the tummy upsets as they do well on it - providing it's safe!
Bloods were inconclusive on Max and Swamp's kidneys aren't that great. Both cats have above normal creatinine (M 203 and S 197) and Swamp's urea is 10.9 so he should be on renal food, but it seems to upset his tum every week or so, leading to several days on i/d before I can reintroduce it. The vet says Max is a bit odd as his creatinine's been at around 200 for 2 years.
I asked about Lacto B but he's not too au fait with it. I may give it a go. I forgot to ask when I could reintroduce the green mussel things for arthritis but am inclined to wait a couple of weeks. Max didn't really get examined and no more thermometers up nasty places so I hope he isn't still bleeding. The 48hr antibiotic wears off by tonight. That def made him feel better.

Thanks for the moral support and advice

One last thing for your fish eaters: he told me that cats who eat mostly fish must have vitamin B1 supplements otherwise it can negatively affect their brain. Just passing that on!

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #33 on:** August 15, 2007, 07:44:35 AM »

Might just do that - it was the rescue's vet who prescribed them, I wasn't happy for some reason, and when I checked with my vet, she just said she thought the dose was a bit high and to stop - will go and throw the rest of them away though.
Good luck with the test results, I do hope there is nothing too serious.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #32 on:** August 14, 2007, 23:30:59 PM »

Sorry to hear what your'e going through with the boys, especially Max, very worrying for you in light of the Rimadyl side effects. Hope the bloods show nothing untoward on Wednesday.

Author Topic: Diaorrhea (was Max is limping) (Read 14366 times)