Say hello to Bruce

[maryas]

SO SORRY YOU AIN'T HAVING IT EASY YET

GOOD LOOK TOUCHING A CAT'S FEET, NOT HEARD OF ONE YET THAT LIKES HAVING THEM TOUCHED.

I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL STANLEY IS REALLY ASLEEP BEFORE I CAN GET ONE OR 2 OF HIS TRIMMED.  HIS PAWS ARE DONE MORE EASILY, HE DOESN'T MIND ME TOUCHING THEM AND AS THEY ARE SOFTER THAN HIS CLAWS ON HIS FEET I THINK IT'S EASIER.

MARY

[Judecat (Paula)]

I would ask the vet if it is poisonous, I don't know how much is 'free' on  the surface, but I would certainly dissuade him.

[jezebel]

He's having bloods done next Tuesday.
Is he likely to poison himself if he licks concrete?

[Desley (booktigger)]

Because of his hyper-t, I'd be tempted to get bloods done as it can be an imbalance and supplements would be easier than watching him

[jezebel]

Oh hell, really?
It's impossible to watch him all the time!

[Judecat (Paula)]

That was my first thought too Sue, trouble is there will also be lime and that is really toxic so if you can dissuade him that would be a really good idea.

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

He may be getting salts from the concrete.

Doe-ent Bruce.   

[jezebel]

Thank you! It's still early days but it's promising.

I'm learning more about him every day. He has a particular miaow if I stroke him in the wrong place or when I touch his feet (I'm trying to get him used to his feet being touched so I can trim his claws). It's like the whingey noise humans make, a kind of two-sylllable "don't": doe-ent.
We found him licking the concrete floor in the bat cave today. What's that about? (There's nothing on the floor to harm him.)

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Jezebel, can I just say, I think you're making definite progress.  Obviously the upstairs tray is a challenge, but we'll done on tackling, and succeeding at least in part.   

[jezebel]

Desley, we thought Bruce would likely live out his life in rescue too - that was half the reason we took him. You're spot on: what with his three legs, his hyperthyrodism and the random peeing - on top of being black and nine years old, AND he'd been returned once already, he wouldn't be most people's first choice.

Anyway, I'm cautiously optimistic that things are improving a little. We're still leaving a bowl of food on his favourite peeing place and so far this has worked. In fact, we forgot to put the bowl down yesterday when we went out but it was fine.
He now has a semi-permanent litter tray in the cellar (which we've renamed the Bat Cave because he likes to hang out down there!).

He seems more relaxed and is finally using his new bed. He's also become a sofa cat will sometimes sit with us in the evening.

Also, I have a suspicion that it's Drum who's been peeing outside Bruce's upstairs litter tray. I thought he was just missing the tray but it happened again yesterday evening and I'm pretty certain he hadn't been upstairs. I'm not sure if it bothers him, though, cos I've seen him using her tray.
I never thought I'd find cats' toileting habits so fascinating!

[Desley (booktigger)]

Yes, it is hard not to be impatient due to wanting them to be happy, it can be a tricky balance because we just want them to realise, but sometimes pushing has the opposite effect, which then makes us feel really bad. And you have the issue that he has inappropriate weeing as well as ‘quirks’. At least he has a loving owner willing to put the time in, things will improve with time, but it just might not be what you get with a cat you’ve had from a well adjusted background. Hope the Zylkene and his meds help too. I did nearly take Buster back because of his weeing, I’d been away shortly after getting him, and he wee’d on something different everyday for a week, the last day I smelt it as I walked in, but couldn’t figure it out till I went to bed and found a damp patch!! It was only because we were waiting on test results I didn’t, he improved after he became an only cat, but never fully stopped - a lot of his was when he couldn’t get his own way. He was hard work the entire time I had him, but I knew that he would live his life out in rescue if I didn’t persevere (he wasn’t up for homing due to a supposed liver issue, it’s only because I know the rescue), and when he developed an unusual health condition, I’m not sure he would have had as long as he did if he’d still been with the rescue. Bruce would likely be the same, between his disability, health and behavioural issues and colour. 

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

  

The cottage sounds lovely - I grew up in something similar.  We were fortunate that we lived there for approaching 18 years, but for my Mum it was frustrating - Landlord wouldn't spend any money.  property was damp, draughty, no kitchen to speak of, and no central heating or double glazing, but as kids, we adored it.  It was a dream of a place.  Quirky, unique and "home."   

Renting of course limits your options with pet companions.  Wouldn't it be lovely if you could win the lottery and buy your dream home?     Sometimes, I give myself different imaginary lottery sums and then scout the property websites for likely purchases.   

Dawn, just think how differently things might have ended for Willow if you hadn't gritted your teeth and been an absolute star for holding on.   

[jezebel]

As for the cat trees - if you don't have space, you don't have space.  You can only do so much within the limits of your average home.  [Now you're gonna tell us you live in a 7 bed mansion with acres of grounds.....?] 

  Oh, I wish - Bruce could have his own suite then, and I'd have staff to clean up all the pee!


Nah, we rent a terraced Victorian cottage (which means tiny and annoying). I'd love to move somewhere bigger but there's not much on the rental market round here we can afford.

[dawnf]

when tilly was small she got into the habit of peeing on our bed, unfortunately we had to start shutting her out of the bedroom until the habit was broken, which it was but it was a few weeks before we could let her back in again

if I had had a place to take willow back to I would have done it without a doubt, oh on the other hand!  anyway she has come around nicely now but still has the odd flash when you have to stay clear!  as she had passed through the hands of several members of my family I know just why she was so difficult!!

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Lord, I know the feeling all too well.      

It's really tempting to want things to progress at our own pace, and to be frustrated when it doesn't, or to be convinced we're doing something wrong (and usually we are from the cat's perspective, we just have to try and figure out what that is - not always easy!)   

We nearly took the gurlies back to the shelter after 3 weeks because we didn't think we'd be able to get anywhere with them.

We'd tried to get them into a cat carrier to get them to the vet for their vacs, and OH nearly lost an eye, and we both ended up with lacerations up and down our hands, arms, neck and faces.   

We just didn't realise how much we'd taken on, or how to measure progress.  I feel like I've moved on a whole lot in terms of what they've taught us since then, and I still know next to nowt!   

I would stress too that the gurlies weren't vicious cats (though we nicknamed them The Velociraptors for a spell.  )  They were terrified cats. 

And scaredy cats can react in all manner of challenging and creative ways to get our attention and help us to help them put things right.   It may not feel like that's what they're doing, but they are.   

And sometimes the most innocuous of events can send them hurtling right back to DANGER in their mind's eye.  It may not be apparent to us - like Desley said about sneezing - but to them it's a signal - a trigger their very survival is dependent on them doing a specific thing.  Whatever their "thing" is.     (we really should have a peeing cat emoji, Tan)

As for the cat trees - if you don't have space, you don't have space.  You can only do so much within the limits of your average home.  [Now you're gonna tell us you live in a 7 bed mansion with acres of grounds.....?] 

[jezebel]

Sue and Desley: your replies really helped, thank you!

I'm can see I'm expecting too much from the poor boy, and you're right - six weeks is nothing. I can be impatient without realising it sometimes, but I'm just impatient to see Bruce settled and happy. He's been through a lot, bless him, and he hasn't really asked for much. (Best of all, he accepted straightaway that Drum is top cat!)

Will try the food bowls again, but for longer. Will keep him on the Zylkene. He started his higher strength Vidalta last night, so I'm hoping his levels will be normal soon and he feels better.

Definitely in it for the long haul, he's a lovely lad!

BTW, there's a cat tree upstairs, which he's explored the lower levels of but isn't too fussed about. There's no room for one downstairs, unfortunately.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Sue has put it far better than me, but 6 weeks is nothing – I’ve had Lucy nearly 3 years and she still reacts to things like cars outside, me sneezing etc. She rarely goes out on a Friday morning because it is bin day. Randomly, despite being spooked by cars she can’t see etc, thunder and fireworks don’t bother her. We suspect she was locked out a lot in her previous life as she reacts badly to the door being shut, I’ve seen her fly in because the neighbour shut their door and she heard it. She’s the opposite with affection, one minute she can be loving attention, then you’ll get either teeth or claws! And she’ll rub your legs and feet, but that doesn’t mean she wants you to stroke her back! What made a massive difference with her was Feliway, I don’t need to check the diffuser, I can tell by her behaviour when it needs changing. Certain fears may lessen, but with his age they may never go completely unfortunately. I think when using deterrents like food for inappropriate peeing, you need longer than a few days to break the habit.

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Sorry Jezebel - going back to what I was trundling on about earlier was whether or not it would be possible to put a couple of cat trees next tot he doorways Bruce likes to hang out by.   Of course, being a cat he'll probably ignore them, but he might feel safer up high, and still be able to "police" the main access points to the house (provided it doesn't interfere with doors opening of course!)

We were laughing day before yesterday - we have so many favoured "bed spots" around the house, including the almost defunct dining room table (can't recall last time we ate a meal sitting at it), the computer chair complete with cat-blankie and the soft memory-foam shower mat which acts as a mattress on the coffee table under the window.  but where was Moray draped full length the other day?  On the second from bottom stair, of course! 

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

It's nearly six weeks now - is it still to soon to expect things to improve?

[/

Poor Bruce, bless him.  In cat terms, sadly, it takes as long as it takes.

When you don't know much of his back history, it's difficult to know what things have been hard-wired into his brain to make him like that. 

In terms of Barley's inappropriate peeing, we used the food trick for a good three or four weeks before taking it away, and in fact we still provide night-time nibbles now as a result of that particular level of bribery and reward.     But not because she pees any more.  She doesn't bless her.

If it helps, we've had Barley and Malt for coming up to three years next month.  I know they were kittens when we got them, and Bruce is an adult cat, but I sense similarities. 

Barley hates anyone moving about the room if she's on the ground, and she will run as fast as her sleek little legs will carry her.  Malt doesn't.  If Barley can get up high, she's less fearful.  Does Bruce access cat trees or anything like that?  I would imagine he can still jump and use furniture to move around the room.  Barley will also take flight if the front door goes - she springs up, watches closely and then legs it.   Malt doesn't.

We got them both at the same time, they both had the same back history.  They were both terrified semi ferals.  Malt has adapted in many ways better than Barley, yet remains reticent on the cuddles front.  Barley is a real hurley-burley cat when it comes to cuddles and affection, but won't stand her ground like Malt.  Bruce has had a lot of adaptations to make in his life of late, and you're helping him to come to terms with them.   

What I'm saying is, you may have to view this as a long haul journey.  I still see marvellous and subtle changes in the gurlies behaviour even after 3 years, though I could wish that in some respects there was miraculous improvement, I'm also kind of resigned tot he fact some aspects of their behaviour may never change, and it's something to which I've got to adapt.

I suspect I will never ever have another sofa whilst ma precious babies are with me, because neither of the gurls can hack change in terms of things being "different" in the house.  Things like getting carpets cleaned, furniture being moved, or me ironing the carpet cos I carelessly got candle wax on the carpet - any and all of those things can set them off.  Bruce is just working out coping strategies for his new position. 

Of course you know all that anyway, and we can tell you love him, and will move mountains to make it work. 

Must admit, I'm a great fan of Zylkene. 

You're right though.  Cats can be weird.   



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[jezebel]

I'm more and more concerned that he might be a little 'different'.

I know all cats are weird, that's why I love them, but Bruce worries me. He cringes away from you one minute and is purring and rubbing his head on your hand literally seconds later. He lies in the most awkward places  - typical cat thing, I know, but then he cowers and looks terrified of being stepped on if you go near him (but still he lies in doorways and across stairs). And he's so nervy - a car door closing outside, something he hears several times a day, will make him jump. Even normal things like the front door opening or someone just walking into a room can make him flee.

And the inappropriate peeing is another thing. We've tried various combinations of litter trays in different places, and he'll use them but revert to peeing on the mat if there's no tray nearby. Sue, I tried your suggestion of putting a food bowl on the mat where he pees and it did stop him (yay!) until I removed it a few days later (boo!).

And nothing seems to improve or change. He hasn't grown any more confident or relaxed - although he hasn't got any worse, either.

It's nearly six weeks now - is it still to soon to expect things to improve?

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

How's Bruce doing, Jezebel? 

[jezebel]

Thanks Mary. Coincidentally, the vet recommended that site to me yesterday.

[maryas]

THIS LOOKS A GOOD SITE:

https://icatcare.org/advice/problem-behaviour/soiling-indoors

I HOPE DRUM HAD A BRILL 18TH

MARY

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Definitely try the fud treats. 

[jezebel]

There are three trays, including the new one!. Trouble is, it's right by the front door - yesterday the post just missed it by an inch!
Also... how can I put this? Bruce's "productions" are on the whiffy side. I mean, they're really bad - chemical warfare standard.

[Misa]

I AGREE WITH DESLEY AND KNOW ITS A PAIN BUT BETTER THAN HAVING USE THE MAT

[Desley (booktigger)]

Hmm, how many trays did you have for them before putting the extra one down? Personally, I’d rather have a litter tray there than him keep weeing on the doormat. 
 

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Fingers crossed!     C'mon, Bruce!  You can do this!!

[jezebel]

Great idea - it's worth a try, thanks.

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Just a thought, but it worked for us - could you try moving the litter tray, and in its place, putting down some dishes with food treats in them? 

When Barley was peeing on our armchair and spare bed, that's what we did.  We cleaned them both with enzymatic cleaners, then began leaving down dishes of food.  We may have just got lucky, but it did the trick. 

[jezebel]

Have bought another litter tray for downstairs, which he uses so there are no puddles anywhere else now.

Thing is, I really don't want it there long term - it's right next to the sofa by the front door (our house is really tiny!) - but I don't know how to wean him off it. I've tried only leaving it there during the day when we're not there, and overnight, but if it's not there he will blatantly pee on the doormat right in front of us! We now have to watch him and if he heads towards the doormat grab him and usher him upstairs to his proper tray.

It's not even that he doesn't like going upstairs, one of his favourite spots is in the bathroom doorway, another is on the landing. Sometimes he spends the whole night there.

The rest of the time he's a sweet, affectionate thing who loves a fuss and will jump up on the sofa for cuddles.

He's back at the vet's today for blood tests to see if the Vidalta is working (I'm not sure it's making much difference).

In other news, Drum is 18 today!

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

How's Bruce doing Jezebel?  Any progress?

[jezebel]

I've got some Zylkene coming next week, today I tried the spot on treatment but so far I can't see any difference.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Yes, I've used it on both my cat and the fosters - although with Lucy, the vet actually suggested Zylkene, but she is really fussy about what we put in her food, which is why we tried the dry, it's the same ingredient in both. Shame he can't tolerate treats, the calming treats also work well. My neighbour did try the calming spot on treatments to stop her cat plucking his fur out when she went away, but that didn't do much.

[jezebel]

Thanks Dawn.


Shame there's not a wet food version. Bruce doesn't have dry food because the rescue told us it makes him sick.
I gave him three tiny treats last week and he threw them up 10 minutes later.

[dawnf]

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/royal_canin_feline_vet_diet/356888

not on commission I promise but I do swear by it and I think desley has had quite good results with her semi feral girls

[jezebel]

not sure if anyone has mentioned the royal canin calm food, I use it for mine and it has been wonderful for restoring the balance at home that was upset when willow arrived

Not heard of that, it's worth a try.

[jezebel]

No, they have separate trays - although they use each other's sometimes. We got Bruce a big corner tray with space for him to turn around in, given that his balance isn't great.

Bruce has to lean on things when he washes (which is what he's doing in the photo).

He's an odd one though, there are loads of beds and blankets around the house he can lie on but most of the time he's flat out on the hard floor.

[maryas]

glad he knows where the settee and the cushion is   HE LOOKS TO BE IN A POSITION HE FEELS SAFE IN, HE HASN'T GOT HIS BACK TO THE BACK OF THE SETTEE WATCHING OUT FOR ANYTHING THAT COMES NEAR HIM.

THE ONLY THING STANLEY JUMPS AT IS THE NOISE A POP BOTTLE MAKES WHEN OPENING IT.

DO THEY SHARE A LITTLER TRAY? MAYBE IT'S A CRY FOR SEPERATE ONES?

MARY

[dawnf]

not sure if anyone has mentioned the royal canin calm food, I use it for mine and it has been wonderful for restoring the balance at home that was upset when willow arrived