Renal food advice and Update on Neko

[snarf]

thank you Susanne  thats really helpful.

Neko was more enthusiastic about the different food flavours     but hes still not eating as much as he should.

his tummy feels very full- could he be constipated?  i would have thought the change in food would be more likely to have the opposite effect. could it be the addition of all this cereal ( he used to be on classic/bozita and applaws dry)? hes chirpy enough in himself and his weight has gone up 0.4kg ( some food likely as weight at the vet was after starving over night)

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

oh yes, hand feeding - I fall for that one too!

Yes I have set meal times.  They are fed 3 times a day - in the morning before I go to work, teatime when I get in from work (time can vary from 4pm to 6pm) then last thing before bed (again varies but usually about 11pm).  I find Jaffa does best if his meals are spaced out and he doesn't go too long between meals.

I feed them separately and as both are greedy pigs they generally hoover up in one go.  Jaffa sometimes eats half to two thirds then wanders off and Mosi will often come in and try it finish his.  If there's more than a little left I lift the dish up out of his reach and put it down again when he's given up or Jaffa re-appears.  Mosi rarely leaves any of his for Jaffa to eat.  Jaffa has his in the kitchen and Mosi has his on top of a bookcase in the living room  (or occasionally under the bed if he insists  )

Tbh I'm glad I have always fed at set meal times as it does make it easier with this kind of thing.  Even before Jaffa needed special food I had the situation where Mosi needed kitten food but Jaffa needed adult/senior.  When Jaffa and his brother were kittens I free fed dry throughout the day to begin with but it got to the stage where Jaffa would scoff the day's rations for both of them before I'd even left for work  so I started feeding at set mealtimes so they are both used to it.  I'm not sure how you change over but I would imagine that after a while they will get used to it.  If it's been 8 or more hours since the last meal I would imagine most cats will be a bit peckish so eat what you put down?  It may take a while for them to get used to it.

[snarf]

Thank you Helen, any tips for getting them to eat? im happy with whatever the vet suggests and neko will eat. the little monkey has me completely wrapped out his paw- lying on his back being hand fed renal wet last night  im starting to suspect im being played...

Susanne- im sure youve mentioned it before but how do you manage feeding them different food ( different rooms, different times?) and guessing you have set meal times- do you have just 2 or more?

i think partly neko is used to just coming and going from the food bowl so even when he does eat the food he eats maybe a dozen mouthfuls and then wanders off. myself and my OH work 9-5 and with 3 other cats around auto feeders wont work i think. is 2-3 meal times enough?

ive always free fed so im not sure how to manage this?

[Tiggy's Mum]

That's good news about the kneecaps, and good that he is being monitored so closely meaning you've picked up the potential kidney issues early. I'm not up on kidney stuff any more but hopfully you can find a food that is acceptable to both of you! 

[snarf]

thanks Susanne, you might have point there as the renal dry he was scoffing  a few days ago he would only eat if fed by hand last night.  he is used to a rotation of food flavours so ill pick up some of the tuna and beef versions tonight  and see if that helps.

the other cats are all on a high protein, no/low carb diet and sods law want what neko has to eat 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

zooplus sell lots of foods suitable for cats with kidney problems (they may not be as low in phosphorus as prescription foods but might be worth a try).  Jaffa has early kidney failure and he loves the RC renal food but he's the kind of cat who doesn't like having the same thing all the time so I need to rotate foods.  He has all 3 flavours (tuna seems to go down the best) but I also feed him some standard senior food, different varieties from zooplus that are low protein/low phosphorus and RC ageing 12+.  Maybe you just need to mix things up a bit so that you dont' feed the same thing meal after meal?

I know what you mean about going against the grain to feed low protein - I go out of my way to make sure Mosi has cereal free meat (so high protein) but given Jaffa's age and condition, I am feeding him what the vet suggests for his kidneys.

[snarf]

Thanks for the links Gillian, i agree that it goes against the grain to feed anything low protein but the internal medicine specialist was very clear that its what he needs. a by-product when protein is digested will speed up the damage to his kidneys- as i understand it the low protein food is really easily digestible (high value) protein but less of it, so the same useable protein to the cat but less digesting (double carbon bond breaking)  needed to get to the good protein, therfore less bad by-products.
He has, or is progressing to, some sort of inflammatory kidney disease, i dont know it its managed slightly differently to other kidney diseases and hes only 3and a 1/2 so its not an age thing

[Gillian Harvey]

Looks like the list of both normal and prescription wet foods HAS been updated  http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_uk.htm .

[Gillian Harvey]

You are probably better off feeding food he likes and perhaps adding phosphate binders as his phos levels high. Low protein is never ideal for a cat, even those with renal dysfunction - and then if they stop eating the renal food, it is less than useless  I don't know if the crf site still  has a list of lower phos wet foods, it wasn't updated for a long time, but might be worth checking it out. http://www.felinecrf.org/

[snarf]

Well weve now seen the specialist for Nekos suspected phankoni syndrome and dislocating kneecaps  and had some mixed news
The good news is that all the work we did to build up his back leg muscles has worked and the specialist orthopedic surgeon doesn’t believe that surgery is the best course for neko at this point. Hes also said that neko isn’t in any pain so the metacam isn’t needed anymore.  :wooooo:The blood tests also didn’t find any glucose in his urine so the phankoni syndrome or whatever is was was transient which can happen.
The bad news is that on an ultrasound his kidneys appear brighter than they should ( although the right size and shape which is good) further tests showed high protein (about 1, 0.4 normal) and creatine and urea in blood slightly high- not above reference range but suggestive of developing low grade kidney disease. His blood phosphate levels are also too high.
He also doesn’t concentrate his urine as well as he should

So although its clearly bad news that hes developing kidney disease, we seem to have spotted it early – we wont know much more unti weve done some more tests in a month and so on.
Hes now on fortekor (reduce protein lost from kidneys which would further damage them), omega 3 supplements (protect kidney) and low phosphate, low protein renal food

Ive always free fed my cats before and obviously cant now. Neko cant get on the sides which really helps (and sparecat could do with the extra exercise ) simple right? Ha! Neko loved his wet food the first night, ate around his old food to get it…the second day ate it begrudgingly with a little renal dry on top, the next night  more sniffing and walking off before eating and so on.   :tired:A week later hes pretty much only eating the dry which clearly isn’t ideal. Obviously the other cats loooove the renal food and will do anything to get it. Neko needs to eat so we need to monitor that it is him eating the food so we can give him something else if needs be- the vet has stressed that he needs to eat but the renal food is the most important thing in keeping him alive for longest.
Weve now resorted to keeping neko in the spare room with his food in an effort to get him used to the food and work on getting him used to set meal times once hell eat the food. We have a water fountain in the spare room and living room and were letting him out in the evening.
The additional complicating factor is Saphy- my other halfs mums cat that moved in a month ago. She has been in the spare room and gets on fine with sparecat and louey. Neko doesn’t like her though (hes possessive of me) and shes not keen on this sharing idea and would rather stay in our room.
Any thoughts? I feel like theyre all unhappy at the moment – neko is hungry and now lonely, saphy is adjusting to a new life, sparecat is not happy working for her dinner and louey gets its all taken out on him

Weve tried microwaving the food to warm it up, sprinkling with treats. is this normal? Does it get better? hes normally a dustbin for food so i think its possibly more about attention?
Neko is clearly hungry and the food is obviously tasty - its RC. chicken at the moment but were gonna get the tuna and beef versions and try them