Topic: Anyone used acupuncture for arthritis/spondylosis? (Read 8320 times)

onyx · « **Reply #32 on:** December 10, 2012, 14:41:32 PM »

ohhhh good luck!

fluffybunny · « **Reply #31 on:** December 09, 2012, 16:42:00 PM »

Thanks Onyx - I'm in Essex, so not the right end of the country for that one! I do know of a recommended animal physiotherapist round here though (she's the one who recommended the acupuncturist we've gone for and apparently treated horses at the olympics). Milly has her first acupuncture session on the 20th so I will see how that goes but will definitely bear it in mind and see if the vet(s) think it might help alongside the acupuncture.

onyx · « **Reply #30 on:** December 09, 2012, 16:24:49 PM »

Hiya - similar to what i posted in weesilvies thread, it may also be worthwhile seeing if you can find a an animal masseuse or physiotherapist?

if you dont mind me asking where you live, i know of two very good ones - one in blackpool and one in the manchester/chesire area.

both have worked on my dog, and one has worked on the cats (though i know both treat cats as part of their practice). chloe has responded very well to her multiple sessions, and i cant afford treatment on three of them so poor fonzie doesnt get repeat performances!

http://www.mctimoney-corley.com/

weesilvie · « **Reply #29 on:** December 04, 2012, 19:37:15 PM »

Good news

Look forward to hearing how you both get on.

Silvie has her check up and booster appointment tomorrow so I will discuss things with the vet then. Haven't yet had the 28 days of the Hills j/d that its supposed to take for me to see a difference - but I see no difference yet. Prepared to give it a chance though.

I have discovered, if I choose to try acupuncture with Silvie, that my vet practice hosts a practitioner for referrals.

fluffybunny · « **Reply #28 on:** December 02, 2012, 21:30:43 PM »

Well we've finally found a different animal acupuncture vet that both my vet and I are happy with, so she's done a referral and I just need to wait for this vet to come back from holiday in a couple of weeks and hopefully she can have her first appointment. I'm really looking forward to seeing if it makes a difference.

fluffybunny · « **Reply #27 on:** November 13, 2012, 17:59:32 PM »

My understanding is that cats lack a particular liver enzyme which means that they cant properly metabolise some drugs, including many pain relief drugs. So they can be toxic particularly to the kidneys - you can't give metacam to cats with impaired kidney function and it can also cause it in the longer term. I have heard of isolated examples of it happening with short term use but to be honest there are isolated examples you could find of problems with any drug. Milly has been on it for over 3 years without problem.

My vet has come back to me and said that they don't do that many referrals but gave me the name of the practice that they have used. I've looked them up on google and the vet who does it at that practice is one who I have (not great) experience of from a few years back...so I have agreed with my vet that I will do some googling and she will do some ringing round and between us we will see what list we come up with. There must be more than one vet round here who does it, so I'm still hopeful!

jezebel · « **Reply #26 on:** November 11, 2012, 15:07:54 PM »

Slightly O/T but how risky is metacam? Is it okay for short term treatment? Bass was prescribed it last month when she had a tooth out. The vet never mentioned any risks, although it was only for a week's use.

CatGirl · « **Reply #25 on:** November 11, 2012, 13:27:14 PM »

I'm so pleased i have read this,i will try to find out about Stride,but can't see anything about acupuncture on that thread. One of my cats is over 18 and when she's about to jump off the bed eg,she always pauses+she sometimes walks a bit stiffly.

fluffybunny · « **Reply #24 on:** November 10, 2012, 18:30:42 PM »

I've got one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HEATED-BED-Pet-cat-kitten-dog-heat-pad-electric-mat-CHV-/350481205055?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var=620017411549&hash=item519a4ec73f

Can't remember which size I've got, I think it's just the small one. You can see pics of her napping in it, in the last post of this page here:
http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,41775.0.html

I also have a flectabed, which is a bit like a flattish duvet, it contains some fancy substance which reflects body heat back to kitty, so again are quite good if you have a kitty who likes napping plaaces or times it wouldn't be helpful to have a plug in bed.

weesilvie · « **Reply #23 on:** November 10, 2012, 18:25:03 PM »

Ooh, a heated cat bed - tell me more! Where can i get one of those?

fluffybunny · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2012, 16:57:00 PM »

Thanks weesilvie - I have emailed my vet and asked about acupuncture so will see what she says. A quick google search shows that there are several other practices and a couple of independent vets around here who do it so hopefully it won't be too hard to sort out.

I know of several people who have used it with bunnies with good effect, and from what I read with cats, although it is needed quite intensively to start off with, you can decrease the regularity once things have started to settle and improve...and in some instances only an occasional 'top up' is needed.

Milly has recently started on the RC ageing 12+ which sounds pretty similar to the Hills j/d - I will see how she goes on that (she absolutely LOVES it) but will also bear the j/d in mind. She also has a heated cat bed which is on a timer to heat up for 15 mins every hour, which she loves and is sat snoozing in as I type

I find that if it's plugged in all the time, she gets out after a while as she seems to get too warm, but having it on 1/4 of the time seems to be about right at the moment. I don't know if it helps or not, it certainly won't do any harm and she does love it!

I'll keep you posted when I hear back from my vet and if I decide to give it a go.

weesilvie · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2012, 13:58:44 PM »

Hi Fluffybunny

My Silvie also has arthritis - slight congenital issues affecting her knees, hips and base of tail, all adding up to general discomfort. She is ten and has been on Metacam for four or five years now. I have had similar discussions with my vet as you and many members here have - quality v quantity of life. I don't like the thought of lifelong Metacam but do now reluctnatly agree that it is necessary. Silvie is ordinarily on a dose roughly equating to two thirds the maximum for her weight as well as Seraquin (a Glucosamine and Chondroitin supplement).

However, Silvie has recently sustained a minor arthritis-related injury which seems to require something more than just the Metacam - see my thread on Vetergesic - http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,41919.0.html (hope the link works!) This is now leading to start thinking about alternative therapies such as acupuncture - so I will be interested to read any replies you get here. I'll do some interenet rummaging and see what I can find.

Another thought - my vet has recommended trying the Hills Science Plan prescription diet j/d - have just started it and will use my thread to post how it goes - http://www.hillspet.co.uk/en-gb/mobility/cat.html

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #20 on:** November 08, 2012, 00:32:28 AM »

Ducha was on Metacam for most of the last 4 yaers of his life as he had arthritus in his one back leg but it changed the quality of his life and I lost him aged 19yrs in August from kidney disease. which is the normal side efect from Metacam.

But painless is better than another year of suffering without metacam

fluffybunny · « **Reply #19 on:** November 07, 2012, 21:22:56 PM »

Thanks both - I've just changed the thread title to ask specifically about acupuncture, I was so excited to find it earlier I didn't notice it was asking about metacam! Yes it is licensed for cats now, heather, it is 1/3 the strength of the dog one so easier to get an accurate dose. I am aware of its risks but Milly is still in pain with just glucosamine/glm supplements so she definitely needs it - the difference in her comfort levels is obvious when she's on it, and she has regular blood tests to check her organ functions are ok. Having said that, I know it's not ideal and I would like to be able to control her pain with minimal interventions if possible, hence I'm interested in hearing people's experiences of acupuncture in particular

heather sullivan · « **Reply #18 on:** November 07, 2012, 20:27:36 PM »

6 years ago my cat Bill was put on Metacam, the vet told me it wasnt licenced for cats only dogs, but I hope it is now licenced. Unfortunately it gave Bill a massive internal ulcer which caused massive internal bleeding and he had to be pts

I would never use it again. But my 18 year old cat who has arthritis in her hock has a liquid the vets recommended called Stride. Its glucosamine + lots of other stuff and I squirt it on her food. She does really well on it, still climbs trees and is very active. I originally bought it off the vet for around £25 but on the internet you can get it for around £16. Thoroughly recommend it

Liz · « **Reply #17 on:** November 07, 2012, 18:25:09 PM »

We have 2 lots of friends up here who both run rescues who swear by it for older cats and dogs and me personally think its great keeps me vertical and cuts down on my painkillers

fluffybunny · « **Reply #16 on:** November 07, 2012, 17:32:01 PM »

Boink! I was just coming on here to ask if anyone has tried acupuncture for their arthritic cats, so I thought I'd do a search first and hey presto, I found my own thread from a couple of years back

Milly is a couple of years older now, and I am once again contemplating whether we should try acupuncture. She is still on the metacam and her bloods are still fine, but the spondylosis is getting far worse and I thought it might be worth considering other avenues again now.

I'd still be grateful for any new thoughts/experiences!

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:12:04 AM »

Pleased you got this sorted out with the vet and hopefully she is more comfortable now

fluffybunny · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2011, 18:31:10 PM »

Boink!

Went back to the vets today and actually it was pretty clear from the vet manipulating and examining Milly that she is significantly more uncomfortable than she had been when she was on the full dose - so back to the full dose we go! As the vet said, it was worth a try because there's no point giving her more than she needs to, but it's now pretty clear that dropping the dose by 20% has had quite a significant impact on her (dis)comfort so it may well be full dose all the while for her from now on. Better that she's comfortable though and I'm quite pleased with myself for spotting what I think were relatively subtle changes!

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2011, 17:31:41 PM »

Cats!

fluffybunny · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2011, 09:42:12 AM »

I'm not sure now

Milly spent a good half hour yesterday afternoon rolling around in the garden chasing her tail. Surely she wouldn't do that if she was feeling in pain? I'll keep it on the same dose for now and see what the vet thinks when she gives her a good examination next Saturday.

Janeyk · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2011, 19:46:14 PM »

Quote from: Gill (sneakiefeline) on February 04, 2011, 21:57:59 PM

When you say a single drop. do you really mean that or is it number 1 on the metacam syringe?

The former, just one single drop, because she was only small and Schui was a bit bigger but had CRF

Canterbury_cats (Sharon) · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2011, 16:54:34 PM »

Very difficult one. Metacam is one of those drugs that side effects can outweigh the problem in the first place.. But cats hide pain so well and if mobility is reduced and cats are less eager to get up and have a wander, or seem less inclined to do the things they would of done a yr ago, then it must be having some impact on mobility. I suppose as with people, we can only treat what we know and if Alice bloods are as you would expect a older cat to be and, then metacam can help discomfort. Its a catch 22 and sometimes being involved in rescue we get to hear about the horror stories of certain drugs and what long term use can do with calvier use. But, there are very few drugs out there for pain relief in cats and metacam has its uses and we just hope that a senior mog will be fine for a long while yet. But it is a balancing act i agree, the same applies to my Bella where the tablets she is on have helped her maintain a good quality of life but the downside is that they may do her kidneys in...

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2011, 21:57:59 PM »

When you say a single drop. do you really mean that or is it number 1 on the metacam syringe?

Duchas full dose for his weight is number one and he is permanently on half of that and it makes a big difference and means before he was cage rested he would bop up and down stairs and climb onto sofa and then.......horror of horrors get on nthe top of the back anf jump down to the floor.

They hide pain so well I didnt know he had a probleem till he hurt his one back leg and went on metacam for that.

Janeyk · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2011, 08:36:18 AM »

Byron only had 1 drop of Metacam a day and Schui was allowed 2 drops but I only gave it if really thought they needed it. It's so hard to tell though because they can hide discomfort. I think probably the best way to tell is not just how they're walking because stiffness may not indicate pain I think it's also if they're eating and whether they seem happy or down.

fluffybunny · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2011, 19:55:24 PM »

Thanks both - yes Mark I also agree with your vet, I don't see how a single drop can be effective when I've noticed a (slight) difference when dropping from a 3.8kg dose to a 3kg one...

Milly does go outside, but I don't think the cold has particularly had anything to do with it because she was on the higher dose when that snowy snap hit in Nov/early Dec, we only dropped the dose after that when it has been a lot milder? She's on about 80% of the 'recommended' dose so I don't know if it's worth taking it up to, say, 90%, or if it gets to that point, might you be just as well to give the full dose

Milly is booked in for next Sat for a revisit and her vacc booster so I will keep her on the slightly lower dose until then because although I have noticed a slight change, it's not hugely significant and I think it will be useful for the vet to have a good feel of her joints and movement to see whether she thinks her level of resistance to the handling has changed on the lower dose. I have a feeling the answer will be 'yes' and we will end up back on the higher dose - but if that's what it needs to keep her comfortable, then that's what she'll get!

Lotzy · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2011, 10:37:11 AM »

I've always been on the view, treat the problem you have in front of you, so I basically agree with your vet's comments in the last paragraph. Having said that I can well understand why you want to reduce the dose. Is is possible to give slightly more than at present, but not the full dose and see if that helps. Does Millie go outside? Obviously it's colder at the moment, which certainly won't help, so you may well find in the warmer months she copes better with it and the dose can be reduced a little at this point.

Mark · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2011, 08:00:59 AM »

I am on the fence with acupuncture. I'm sure it can help with pain but I would want to be sure. I am in the same boat with Alice. We think she is around 13/14 but an elderly one. The vet showed me how limited the movement in her left back leg is and wants her to go on the 3kg dose permanently. He said I could try for a couple of weeks and see if she improves - then take her off it and see if she goes downhill again then bring the dose up to whatever works for her. He said I could keep a close eye and give it to her just when I think she needs it but he would be happier if she had it every day. He said he is very much quality before quantity. She doesn't seem to be in major pain so I have decided to start after her full bloods next week when she has a dental.

I mentioned that I have heard of people giving their cat a very small dose - ie a couple of drops a day and it working. He said he didn't believe that small a dose could help otherwise that is what cats would be given.

fluffybunny · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2011, 18:20:49 PM »

Thanks guys - maybe the acupuncture is something worth exploring then. I particularly worry because she's only 11. If she was 16+ I would have no hesitation in using the full whack of metacam and not worrying about it, but while quality is of course far more important than quantity, at her age I was just wondering whether there might be a compromise which could give both. Perhaps acupuncture might provide a route to explore that further - looking at the ABVA website there are a couple of vets nearby who do it.

Milly is due back for her booster in the next couple of weeks so I'll discuss 'what next' with my vet then.

madamcat (Edd) · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2011, 17:24:25 PM »

Quote from: fluffybunny on January 30, 2011, 17:02:17 PM

My vet has also suggested trying acupuncture - not something that she does but wanted to give it as an option. Has anyone tried this? How often is it needed and does it help? Any other suggestions? What do you think?

Thanks

Someone I know on CC has just started her 18 year old on acupuncture for arthritis and believes she is seeing improvements. Here is the thread in case you have not seen it:
http://www.catchat.org/discus/messages/18/360870.html?1296397979

Cost around £27 a session (that is Surrey prices).

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2011, 17:09:44 PM »

Yes Ducha is now on life long metacam amd I have agreed with my vet the same as in your last paragraph.

He is 17 and haldf now but also just started 6 weeks cage rest as he is a 3 legged cat and has dislocated a bone in his wrist on same side as mising leg.

He went onto metacam about June time I think maybe earlier cos he fell off the sofa and hurt is one back leg....sigh He was on a full dose for a week and it changed him completely and think he must have been in pain with arthritus possibly ever since I had him. He is now on a half dose.

If your cat is getting stiff then that means she is hurting again and would either put her back on full dose yourself or discuss with your vet, who sounds very much like mine, ie better that the cat lives painfree and has a good life but maybe for a slightly less time.

I hope she feels better soon cos suspect you cant lower the doseage that keeps her comfortable

fluffybunny · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2011, 17:02:17 PM »

*waves*

Our lovely Milly, who is 11, has been on metacam since August because of arthritis. She has been having glucosamine/chondroitin supplement as well, and has so far tolerated the metacam nicely. Follow-up blood tests show no declining organ function so far. She has really picked up well and has become an altogether different cat on the metacam - much more boisterous, better appetite, livelier, walking more smoothly etc.

Since maybe mid-december we have been trying to reduce the dose to see if she can remain comfortable on a lower daily dose or a dose every other day. At 3.8kg she is now having a 3kg dose daily, but I think I am starting to notice a slight decline again. Not majorly, but enough to make me reluctant to try reducing it any further at the moment...she is a little stiffer and just doesn't seem quite as mobile and has a slight gait when she walks.

So I'm not really sure what it's best to do. My vet is of the view (and I tend to agree) that if she needs the full dose of metacam all the time but with the risk that it shortens her life, then that is better than her having many years left if she spends all those years in significant discomfort. But how can I tell how much discomfort she is in and if the lower dose is enough? Is the fact that she is a bit stiffer an indication that she is in pain again, or is it just a bit of stiffness? Is even this worth it, or would you just whack it up and be sure that she's not feeling any pain? My vet has also suggested trying acupuncture - not something that she does but wanted to give it as an option. Has anyone tried this? How often is it needed and does it help? Any other suggestions? What do you think?

Thanks

Author Topic: Anyone used acupuncture for arthritis/spondylosis? (Read 8320 times)