Topic: My cat hard turned agressive to me and my other cat, help please (Read 10575 times)

funkiechicken · « **Reply #41 on:** May 24, 2012, 03:40:43 AM »

Hi Mary,

Are you swapping the cats themselves? I know they are re-discovering themselves via the basket but I wonder if you actually swapped areas for the cats they may feel (or rather Sox) less determined to claim a certain area of her own (especially if in that area is also her food and tray).
Spookily I have just finished reading a book (Jackson Galaxy - Cat Daddy - its really good) and it explained this behaviour quite well, about a cat who attacked everyone from sitting on the landing outside the bedroom door (even resorted to drawing blood landing on their heads) but was fine with its owners & their children. Anyway they looked at what was in upstairs that was suddenly make the cat feel so in need to protect it and viciously too and anyway, they found that not far from the kids room was where they had the tray, food, toys for the cat. They removed it all. Spread out the toys, but the tray downstairs and the food in another room and the cat instantly changed.
He said the cat felt like its territory was just that small space upstairs and because everything it had was in there. Because of this the cat defended it with its life - but when everything was spread out it saw its territory as the whole house, it then instantly relaxed because the territory was large enough for itself, his family and any visitors to come and go - so the cat didnt feel the need to defend as he could safely watch people in his territory without them giving him the feeling they were "overtaking" it.

I'm not saying this is the problem or that Soks will be a darling (we could hope) but maybe the removal for a short time of Moet (may into a bedroom) and just expand Soks world, put things back how they were and no longer shutting the door, might help her relax and then bring Moet back??
Its worth a try? perhaps??

Whatever, happens - good luck with the vets tomorrow x

MaryFM · « **Reply #40 on:** May 23, 2012, 02:39:04 AM »

Thanks, I'm going to phone my vet tomorrow.
Yesterday was such a good day Soks was in the box (carrier) and Moet out apart from a slight hiss nothing happened and Moet had a wander round, then she went back upstairs and I closed the door and let Soks out, who had a sniff around then went and sat on her fav window sill.
It's such a shame this has happened, I must have been so lucky in the 35years I have had tortieshell cats they've all been placid natured though some were snobs with their own appointment diary!

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #39 on:** May 23, 2012, 02:09:40 AM »

So sorry and think you need to get your vet to refer you to an animal behaviorist

MaryFM · « **Reply #38 on:** May 23, 2012, 02:03:13 AM »

As I sit writing this my nerves are rather frayed Soks got out of the room she was in and made a beeline for Moet who was playing with her toys upstairs by the time I shouted to my son, Soks had chased Moet onto my bed and was on top of Moet who was curled up in a ball, I was trying everything I could think off to get Soks to stop and away from Moet nothing worked, not the recommend method my son put his gloves on and pulled Soks away to give Moet a chance to escape. I am so angry with myself I didn't get the door closed fast enough and Soks was out and up the stairs so fast I'm just glad my son was at home.
Soks is sitting on the window sill of my bedroom with the door shut I took her litter box in and some food she was hissing and growling at me so I have left her to it till morning.
The introductions with them both were going reasonable well, I have two feliway plug things one upstairs where Moet is and one down for Soks a Feliway hand spray and they have holistic drops in their water. 4 times Soks has attacked Moet and it's never a spat and gone she's "in for the kill" and if you didn't break it up Moet would be injured as it after tonight's episode her she's a bundle of nerves, she must wonder what sort of house she's living in each time she's been on the receiving end of Soks fury.

Sorry to prattle on, just feel rather shattered at the mo.

Sootyca · « **Reply #37 on:** April 25, 2012, 19:42:41 PM »

I must say, I am very much of the leave them to get on with it brigade most of the time but if Moet gets so stressed that she is soiling in the wrong places then you can't do that. I know with my two most of the time they just tolerate each other but Sky is much more nervy (having previously been bullied by other cats) and her behaviour triggers Robbie to go for her most days. For him its always a dominance thing rather than wanting to kill her but I can see her posture and movements and can tell exactly when it will happen so try and catch it with distraction - usually a toy that snaps him out of it. He never likes her having any playcube. Doesn't bother with other toys but playcube is out of bounds. He's a hundred times worse when he is hungry and when he can't get out for any reason - he redirects his aggression the only way he can! The difference with mine is after she has hissed and the spat has been sorted out (usually by me) it's back to normal getting along with each other again like nothing has happened.

If you think Soks is the problem then if you haven't already done so look at it from her point of view - does she have enough to do during the day, is there food she can get to (but maybe make her work at it with a feeding ball where she has to move it to get the food out of), does she have enough to challenge her like toys where she can interact with you (da mouse or bird) or maybe the outside to burn off her energy.

I don't think any of the above will be helpful really, but it may be worth just watching Moet if she is the more nervy to see if you can spot in her body language what triggers Soks.

Oh, and maybe if you only have one Feliway you may need to have more to cover the whole house rather than just one room. I don't think one plug in is enough for a house. And if you are stressed about the whole situation, maybe they are picking up on your anxieties and reacting to them.

Keep at it and hopefully you will get there.

Karen
x

MaryFM · « **Reply #36 on:** April 25, 2012, 18:41:07 PM »

Hi

I hope everyone is well and moggies too.

Soks and Moet are still apart despite my introductions one in the cat basket and the other out and vice versa, we did at first have a reasonable quiet spell then it has gone back to hissing and spitting.
I got a feliway plug in and have that plus my rescue remedy in their water and am wondering what to do next to help them.
I was discussing this with a "friend" who has cats she said she just lets them get together and get on with it, which I think is totally wrong, she mentioned she couldn't manage with having her house separated off just for the cats, needless to say I made a quick exit, she couldn't see my point of view at all with slow introductions.

It is so heartbreaking to see them apart when they were so good together.

MaryFM

funkiechicken · « **Reply #35 on:** April 06, 2012, 01:59:56 AM »

I'm glad things are getting there, Mary - if not slowly

I hope peace & calm is restored soon and i'm sure if poor Soks let her guard down she'd find the companianship she once had with Moet again

Keep us up to date with the progress

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #34 on:** April 05, 2012, 00:42:19 AM »

This sounds very promising but it will be very slow, miricles dont happen fast and this will be a miricle that you are making happen.

Well done

MaryFM · « **Reply #33 on:** April 05, 2012, 00:33:11 AM »

Hi
Thanks to everyone for the kind wishes and advice, very much appreciated.

The girls are still living apart I am letting them see each other Soks in her carrier Moet on the carpet a good space between them. Soks hisses and growls but it is not as intense as before and she does have short pauses when she doesn't make a sound. Moet sits motionless on the carpet, ears back head down then after a few moments she growls so I let her leave the living room and she runs back upstairs.
I let Soks out and she went onto the window sill and hissed at me but it was all show and I spoke softly to her and she calmed down. I went upstairs to find Moet and she was in the bathroom hiding behind the toilet but when she saw me she came out and went and sat in her play cube and presented her head for a rub.
All things considered I can see improvement but there is a long way to go. Both cats are aware of each other as Moet likes to play in the hall with her sponge ball which is opposite the living room door and as they both have play cubes I swap them over so they can get the scent.

My heart goes out to Moet being upstairs she seems to be coping reasonably well whereas as soon as I leave Soks alone she cries her heart out, when I have to go out I put on a battery radio so she can at least hear a voice or two.

Mary

funkiechicken · « **Reply #32 on:** March 31, 2012, 04:26:41 AM »

I hope everything goes well and it does sound as though its heading in the right direction - if not slowly.
Soks is clearly feeling safe with you and i hope introductions back with Moet go well. I still feel its because she hasnt been well but hopefully with the remedies/plug ins/advice all will settle soon x

Good luck with re-introductions!! Poor Moet wont know whats going on bless her x

Dawn F · « **Reply #31 on:** March 29, 2012, 09:20:02 AM »

good luck!

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #30 on:** March 29, 2012, 00:32:19 AM »

Hope it goes well and remember slowly slowly

MaryFM · « **Reply #29 on:** March 28, 2012, 23:14:31 PM »

Just a wee update, the girls are still separated as I was waiting till Soks finished her medication which she has. I got some Bach rescue remedy and put drops into their water bowls. Soks has calmed down and hasn't hissed at me for week though she did at my son when he came in to watch the Grand Prix last Sunday. She's still quite clingy and insists on sleeping on me which still amazes me as she never had any interest until she had the upset with Moet.

This weekend I am going to introduce them with Soks in the carrier and Moet on the ground and see how it goes and basically persevere if I'm in for the long haul so be it. Moet goes for a checkup on Saturday to the vet and I did't really want to start introductions with her having the smell of the vet about her.

Well fingers crossed for the weekend, and once again thanks so much to everyone for the kind advice and links.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #28 on:** March 22, 2012, 13:14:50 PM »

Quote from: MaryFM on March 22, 2012, 01:00:16 AM

If I could only figure out what happened to trigger this so that I could prempt something happening again.

I don't suppose you ever will know for sure

hope things get back on an even keel soon. I agree with Gill, the Feliway diffusers would probably be better than the spray in this case, perhaps a couple of them, plugged in, in different rooms.

I know some people swear by Bach Rescue Remedy, so would be worth a try.

MaryFM · « **Reply #27 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:00:16 AM »

Thanks Funkiechicken for your reply.

It has been a quiet night no hissing from Soks she went to her pink apple hooded bed for the first time to night to sleep instead of being on me all the time and when my son came in from work she didn't get worried just stayed in her apple bed and looked at him (my son and I think something may have happened in the girls previous home that made them very wary of men).

Apart from Moet's soiling today hasn't been too bad, Soks is taking her tablets ok I just open her mouth and pop it in so that's a blessing.
I am just about to go and sit with Moet for a while, give her a little wet meal, top up her biscuits (dried food) and water and make a general fuss of her. She only likes touched on her terms but she's very partial to a scratch round the ears. I hope the girls can get to some stage of tolerating each other.
If I could only figure out what happened to trigger this so that I could prempt something happening again.

Thanks again everyone for your help and advice

Mary

funkiechicken · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2012, 23:13:31 PM »

Hi Mary,

How are things??
I hope Soks' infection clears up soon

It sounds like Soks is feeling very vunerable in her illness which is causing her to be un-nerved when she hears people re-enter the room and causing her attacks on poor Moet

bless her

I remember one of my Nana's cats being the same when she was very ill - and my own cats (although mine were not to the extreme as Soks) but the hissing etc....
I hope that everything settles soon

and that Moet's soiling and obvious distress is short lived. She is clearly missing Soks and also will be distressed at what she thinks is unprovoked attacks and I hope it isnt long before they get back to their usual happy selves.

xx

MaryFM · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2012, 18:50:58 PM »

Thanks CarolM

MaryFM

CarolM (Wendolene) · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2012, 17:24:28 PM »

I'm so sorry things are no better. I can't offer any practical advice I'm afraid but I can send you some of these.

MaryFM · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2012, 16:56:00 PM »

Hi

I explained everything in great detail to the vet and he is hoping that it is the infection she has and the pain she was in the caused her to behave the way she did and says once she is over that we can start to reintroduce them and if Soks is behaving the same he will look in other areas, he said on the face of it she is a healthy cat.
Moet being the more visibly nervous of the two seemed on the surface to be coping reasonably well with being separated from Soks but obviously she hasn't with the soiling and as she looked on Soks as a mother figure so to speak she's must be so confused with Soks attacking her.

I have thought over the day this all started and there is nothing from my view that was out of the ordinary so I am as confused as the girls are.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2012, 14:12:19 PM »

i think you will find a feliway plug in better than the spray and it can take up to two weeks to start working.

sounds like there are a lot of things going on there, did you speak to your vet about the whole situation? what advice did he give?

MaryFM · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2012, 12:47:05 PM »

Hi everyone

Sorry I didn't post this earlier. I took Soks to the vet on Saturday for a checkup and her temperature was still high so I was given 5 days antibiotic tablets for her.
Moet is peed all over my son's bed yesterday and this morning she poohed and peed all over mine she had been using her litter box which is in the downstairs loo, one morning I did find it on it's side how she did it I don't know as it's very large a sleigh shaped. I was wondering whether that gave her a fright. The livingroom door where Soks is, is a few feet away from the loo I was wondering whether that put Moet off though she does sit on the stairs and listen to Soks meowing when I go out of the room.

I am going to look into Bach Flower Remedies for Soks and perhaps Moet I have a good Boots and Holland Barrett stores nearby so can get the item I choose straight away, which will be handy as I'm not able to walk far. I have been using my Feliway spray but can't see any difference or what should I expect to see if anything.

If anyone has used Bach's products would you be kind enough to let me know how you got on.

Many thanks

MaryFM

MaryFM · « **Reply #20 on:** March 15, 2012, 23:49:55 PM »

Thanks Gillian and Gill.

I will ask the vet about the products you suggested, Soks has been beside me all evening she has managed to sleep a little which is great at least she's not on the look out for invisible enemies.

Mary

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #19 on:** March 15, 2012, 22:54:42 PM »

So sorry it didnt work and agree with Gillian

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #18 on:** March 15, 2012, 22:07:36 PM »

Oh sorry to hear this, perhaps it was just a bit too soon to try re-introducing them again

maybe just needs a bit longer for them both to settle down a bit and for Soks to completely well again from the UTI before you have another go. Ask your vet about Zylkene, its a natural product, not a drug, but it can be useful in these situations, the other product is Kalm Aid, which some people find works better than Zylkene. http://www.animalmedicationdirect.co.uk/kalm-aid-for-dogs-and-cats-nutriscience-250ml-pr-6385.html - neither are prescription products, but your vet may well keep Zylkene in stock.

MaryFM · « **Reply #17 on:** March 15, 2012, 20:22:28 PM »

Thanks everyone for your messages.

Well tonight was a total disaster, my son had Moet at one end of our livingroom and I was at the other end which leads into our kitchen with Soks. They both eyed each other up then Soks hissed then Moet did and just as I went say to my son take Moet away Soks flew across the room and attacked Moet who was on her back Soks had a grip of her and took several water sprays and a cushion to get her off. Moet ran out of the room and Soks jumped up onto the window sill behaving like a right fire ball, my son went after Moet who is now under his bed and he's waiting for her to come out.
When I went near to the window where Soks was behind the curtain I could see she had wee-d and poohed, so I cleaned it up whilst she gave me cat's abuse afterward she came into the kitchen and rubbed my legs and though still hissing a bit she put her head over to gave petted, now she's sitting on the blanket in front of me next to the monitor washing herself as I type this.
My son was astonished at the viciousness of the attack, I have to be honest the only cat's I've seen fighting are the ones who come in to my back garden and they were not like Soks she just seemed to be in terminator mode.

Soks goes to the vet tomorrow evening for a follow up exam re her infection and will see what he suggests.

My son and I are really upset over this, we both have no idea what triggered Soks to be like this, it was as though she had a split personality I don't know if cat's can have such a thing. At the moment she's sitting up she's heard a noise and is on the alert, she has always been a little nervous and alert for the odd noise but now she's a total bundle of nerves.

I will finish off now as my supper as just about finished cooking I just couldn't face anything earlier I was so upset with what happened.

Thanks again I do appreciate all your messages.

Mary

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #16 on:** March 15, 2012, 17:56:02 PM »

Have a pillow to hand cos its useful to protect your self and also put between two spatting kittens.

Loads of luck

CarolM (Wendolene) · « **Reply #15 on:** March 15, 2012, 17:32:10 PM »

Good luck for tonight.

I hope the urinary infection is under control now and that's all that is needed to get Soks back to her normal self. Strange things urinary infections. In humans they can have all sorts of other consequences so maybe its the same for cats. Sudden behavioural changes in the elderly are often due to urinary infections but get misdiagnosed as the onset of dementia. My OH was thought to have had a heart attack that turned out to be a urinary infection and I've heard of others who have had a similar experience.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #14 on:** March 15, 2012, 16:30:36 PM »

Sounds as though things are calming down somewhat

I'm sure it will all get back to normal soon and you will have a happy household again

Good luck tonight!

MaryFM · « **Reply #13 on:** March 15, 2012, 15:42:32 PM »

Hi everyone

As I type this Soks is lying on a fleecy blanket next to the monitor, she has calmed down a lot though still hissing a bit when you come back into the room but she is not taking it any further and comes over once she realises I'm not a threat and she wants a fuss she has actually come over and slept on my lap which she has never done before. I have noticed instead of the quiet meow she used to do when she talked to me before it's now a short sharp mournful meow.

Soks and Moet are still apart and we are hoping to let them see each other tonight and take it from there. Last night Moet was doing her best to dig under the livingroom door and Soks sat watching quietly while this was going on. I opened the door slightly and Moet stuck her paw in to which Soks sniffed it and put her own paw through the opening for Moet to sniff and she didn't react, so hopefully when they meet it might go well, Moet is really missing Soks.

I have been so fortunate with all the tortie's I have had all were good natured, slightly snobby, had their own appointment diary, apart from Darcey she was a tabby tortie version of a ragdoll so laid back it was ridiculous she passed last year at the age of 20 every day I miss her.
I must admit I did get such a shock with Soks behaving like that and it has been a learning curve for me and tonight if it does go pearshaped I have a water spray handy.

So fingers crossed!

Mary

MaryFM · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2012, 21:47:23 PM »

Hi everyone

Thank you all so much for your very helpful replies and the links which I have read, saved and they gave me another way of looking at the problem that didn't occur to me especially a cat looking out of a window and seeing another cat, my neighbours are multi cat households and they do come in to our back garden or use the fence to cross over to theirs.

Soks was still hissing and growling this morning so I phoned our vet and took her along. He opened the door of the carrier and lifted her out and she couldn't have been nicer well behaved and calm whilst he examined her he then took her temperature it was over 103 he took a urine stick test from her blanket which she had peed (bless her) and the result is she has a urinary infection he could feel something around the kidney area I'm afraid I'm not technical in how he could tell. She was given two injections one antibiotics and one painkiller. The vet is open to this being part of the cause and she goes back on Friday for another jag he said once that is cleared up and if she is still showing the same behaviour we can try other paths. He also said it could have been something in the rooms she was in which is not obvious to me. He also told me that her knee joints pop out and in but as she has not displayed any problems walking and from his movement of them whilst he examined her he said to leave alone as he detected no flinching she was probably born like it.
We have to keep Moet and Soks separate for a few days depending on Soks's attitude at them moment she is still a hissy and growly but not as intense as before she has been up on the settee sleeping on a knitted poncho I gave her she has made the odd fuss of me but if I move away to another room and come in or do something away from her in the same room she hisses and growls but she as instense and if I stroke her head she calms down.

It's been quite a day I have been dividing my time between both girls Moet is totally confused but thankfully she can be sidetracked with treats. I managed to get A Catitude travel spray by Feliway locally they didn't have any of the other items and I will order off the net.

Well I've waffled on enough for now, thanks again everyone for your kind help and suggestions I will keep you up to date with Soks's progress.

MaryFM

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2012, 16:57:29 PM »

Thats a very good link and although I think I had heard of this I have never read about it and it does sound like whats happened with these two cats.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2012, 14:35:50 PM »

No its not working for me now either

Heres another one, explains it fairly well http://www.knowyourcat.info/health/aggressionredirect.htm

Rosella moggy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 13, 2012, 13:54:33 PM »

I can't get that link to work for some reason Gillian

Here's another one Mary. Very much hope things settle down quickly. It sounds a bit scary. We have two feliways permanently plugged in as we have so many cats.

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,14320.0.html

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:05:14 AM »

I would second the recommendation for Feliway - £18.40 delivered from here which is probably about as cheap as it's going to get http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/cats/healthcare/anxiety/feliway-diffuser.html

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2012, 00:18:40 AM »

You'll probably never know what set this off

- sounds like redirected aggression http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/aggression3.html . Definitely try the Feliway plug ins again, hope things settle down again soon.

MaryFM · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2012, 23:45:16 PM »

Hi
thanks every one for your replies.

Moet came out from under my son's bed a few minutes ago and having checked her over and watched her walk she's fine, mentally she's a bag of nerves keeps looking out for Soks. I am keeping them separate Soks downstairs and Moet up.
Soks has been hissing, growling etc., at me and is now on her cushion on top of the couch about two feet away from me. .
I am always aware of what products I use in the house and always take note if something upsets them but today it was totally out of the blue.

I am really upset about the girls and have no idea what set this off.

funkiechicken · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2012, 22:11:29 PM »

Hi Mary,

Do you think Soks could be ill etc...? This could have him on the attack as they are very private and when some cats are ill they either hide from predators or they go on the reverse.
However, from your story i am wondering if Moet is the ill cat (as well as his poorly leg) If so Moet may be giving off different smells and to Soks this cat is but a stranger in his home, hence the vicious nature of the attack (although surprised he also attacked you too) unfortunately like most animals the weak can be attacked.

On the odd occasion my old boy Tazi was ill, his adopted brother (who Tazi raised from a kitten) would attack and hiss at him. Luckily Tazi soon reminded him who it was with a few punches on the nose - but only once did i have to step in. This would also happen if one of them went to the vets due to smell.

I hope everything has settled down and that Moet has been treated

x

Gill has also given good tips with the Feliway etc

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2012, 20:55:36 PM »

I would definately get a couple of plug ins and so strange for one to act like that.

Yes keeping them apart is a good idea.

I have a tortie who is terrified of people and after 7 years has just started to love being stroked!

MaryFM · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2012, 20:44:20 PM »

Hi Gill

I have no idea what happened this house was quiet I could hear Soks eating the biscuits then Moet came in with a bit of a limp.
I don't have a Feliway plug in I did think of it when I got them but after Soks initial behaviour they settled in and I just let them come to me. I have had tortoiseshell's all my cat owning life and apart from Sophie god rest her being a bit of a snob I've had nothing like this.
At the moment Soks is across the other side of the room from me, and Moet is under my son's bed he is up there should she come out he can have a look at her.
I'll just have to keep them apart till I can call the vet. If I have to take Soks to him he'll need a suit of armour.
Joking apart I am dumstruck, I have been so aware that these two cat's have completely different natures to any of the ones I had before, so as soon as I realised what they were like I read up all I could for cat's with nerves but I really knew most of it being common sense. It's only myself and my son who is at work all day and my daughter visits. Pretty boring household really no real noise, rowdy behavour etc., so I am stumped.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2012, 20:29:53 PM »

This is very worrying and torties are notoriously difficult and sounds like the tortitude is rearing its ugly head with yours.

It sounds that its possible that something scared Soks and maybe Moet has been hurt by her.

I really dont know what to suggest and hope someone else does.

Only two things spring to mind ...........do you have feliway plug ins round the house?

If not a consultation with your vet maybe?

If Moet is injured you may need to do this anyway.

I hope someone else has some good ideas.

Author Topic: My cat hard turned agressive to me and my other cat, help please (Read 10575 times)