Sasa, Misa, Lupin and their progress now Sasa is in da house

[funkiechicken]

I think its so hard to try and accomodate everyone and i fear what you might find having both indoor and outdoor cats is that once Lupin is harnessed (if he ever makes it that close to going for a walk lol) getting a taste for the great outdoors might infact enhance his disire to be out there at any cost 
Again theres cost involved in buying all these products - and things arent cheap these days and thats just general day to day living - (thanks Cameron!  ) Why the 100ft fence (if it ever became an option) is a good idea, because it is free standing, it doesnt actually have to fit the whole parametre of your garden and boy!! you must have some sized garden! (ever thought of a goat to keep the folage down lol) but you can just enclose part of it - and its just mesh so less intrusive for the neighbours than a very tall fence....but for my lot to get the full cat heaven (inside & out) they desire they will have to wait until i win the lottery....!!.

Just had a brain wave....bare with me, they dont happen often   

Rather than segregating part of the inside to the back door....would it be just as easy to do it the opposite way round, by adding something similar to this (its just for idea purpose only) http://penthouseproducts.com/the-pens/foldingflatlet/  to the outside of your door and then fitting Cat flap number 2 to its outside? It could be fitted raised up slightly so you can still open your door, you could get something that isnt cage like (alot cheaper as well) to do your own make shift one?
So they enter catflap number one, into the box - then straight through into catflap number 2 to the great outdoors?? would this still be effective enough?

So Lupins chance of escaping through 2 chip reading cat flaps is going to be difficult or at worst a group effort from them all 
Plus once Sasa has gained her confidence in being back indoors it may not seem such an obstacle to get in and out anymore. You could also let them walk about it, try the final flap, before fixing it to the back door, so they get a feel of what to do before it even appears attached to the door??.....
 

or having the existing barrior up for short periods of time, may lesson the fear they have of it?? its worth a try 
as an addition to your already made barrior, you could also have something like this for Lupin 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Window-Screens-UK-Pet-Mesh/dp/B001VCC4DW which is a happy solution for summer, where Lupin feels the breeze in his fur, is still safe indoors and you can have the window open for 5mins lol 
Actually something like that box, might be ideal to enable Lupin to just sit outside in it for a bit if it were fixed so he got into it through the window? It might also distract him from trying to escape and it only needs to big enough for him to sit/lie in....

I'm sure something will click and it'll all work out happy for them all (and no stress for you either!) 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Thanks very much for all your work but I have 100ft plus garden but only 22ft wide and its too expensive to catproof and too wet for a run in the parts that get sun.

Its also been dug up by moles and needs so much work before they did it up for the 3rd year running!

Money is a problem and I also have a busy road at the front and a 6ft wall and gate at the side is no use with Lupin......sigh

I also have a nasty neighbour and Lupin is just no fear unlike the outdoor cats.

I have thought and thought about this for the last 6 months and think that my barrier infront of back door meaning outdoor cats have to use two flaps is the only solution.

I have to get the flap in the barrier working probaly first though cos its sticking.

The original idea when before Lupin came was that he would be an indoor cat and go out if he wanted on a harness..........however I wasnt expecting such a confident 10 month old who also is so clever and beats me at my own games!

He wont wear a collar and cant get a harness on him and he has been hiding somewhere since early this afternoon...........at least I know he is in the house .........sigh

My outdoor cats will not be happy with any enclosure as they have lived here for 7 years in July and roamed freely and Lupin only likes what is greener on the otherside!

The weather is a serious problem here as its very wet and windy most of the time........my health is not wonderful and still have a new fence to put up on one side.

[funkiechicken]

Here are some ideas for Cat enclosures - a possible compromise on trying to keep all cats happy....although i sense Lupin will be the most pleased  I have gone from whoa in price to hmm, not too bad, to give a range of possiblities or even just ideas??
I will try and come up with a solution for your existing set up  ....although the only thing i've found so far really is door Screens for Pets (much like the fly ones that are common in the USA) you can add a cat flap, but not sure if a Standard Cat flap would do the job  so i dont think this is ideal, as Lupin could still get through, thus wondering why you have it in the first place  but i have my thinking cap on and will also ask my friend at work who has her own cats and also fosters 

Higher End of the Market
http://www.purrfectfence.co.uk/expandable_fence.asp
This a free standing fence, cutting out the need to attached to an existing fence (which many dont actually have - at least all the way round) Good if your renting too, as you arent modifying someone else property and you can take it with you  works out at £629.30 for a 100feet of fencing - which can be used to span your garden or create a make shift enclosure - you can also buy gates for easy access for yourself. Its ordered from the US but they have UK distributer which cuts costs. Infact the testamonials are mainly UK buyers....of course this is the high end of the solution and keeps Sasa close by  and stops Super-Lupin from getting himself into any trouble - which could be hard to imagine right now  and burns off his energy - could be a God Send 
Misa also gets to sit out inspecting....keeping his territory safe lol


Middle to high of the market
http://www.catrun.org.uk/21-bespoke-cat-runs-and-enclosures.html
Depending on the layout of your back door/windows you could incorporate an entry from the window into the enclosure....may be alittle on the small side for those used to outdoor freedom...

For a little cheaper....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WALK-RUN-PEN-ENCLOSURE-CHICKEN-CAT-DOG-BIRD-AVIARY-RABBIT-/180796321820?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item6fc5a4ae78
added with a Cat house, shelves etc its a good size for the price...options for bigger too plus price range

A page with useful links on how to build your own....
http://user.xmission.com/~emailbox/catrun.htm

Or Custom Designed?
http://www.woodenart.org.uk/products.php?product=Bespoke-Cat-Runs%2C-Cat-Pens-and-Enclosures

[funkiechicken]

  its hard to come up with anything not knowing house layout etc... does Sasa, Misa, Ducha all go on a wander or would the garden be surffice? It depends also on cost. Not that i need to but, i know Cat Proofing my garden would be costly as its quite long. Are the outdoor kittens happy with cat flaps?

I just wonder if theres a solution that would not only give outdoor cats their freedom, but also keep Lupin safe? Especially as he is clearly trying his hand at grand escapes  it could eliminate your stress and keep supercat happy without exposing him to dangers...?
will see whats on offer - even if just for ideas for the future 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

What you describe as a barrier is roughly what I had and am certain that it was that which stopped Sasa coming into the house rather than Lupin.

Its the size of a door with the centre part with a wire mesh, which I had to cover cos Lupin just climbed up it and over!

So it has 18inches plus of mesh visable for looking and now has a flap in it, the rest is the shiney side of hardboard to stop Lupin.

The flap reads chips but has taken Misa 2 months to use it and neither him nor Sasa would come up to it even when it was open and it divided the house in the middle of the hall.

I was hoping to put this about 2ft inside the back door which has an ordinary flap that I cant change. Its currently sitting against the wall in the hall and Sasa hardly comes down stairs..........I guess I should move it to back door soon but such a bloomin pain and still trying to get used to walking through my hall without dropping things and then catching Lupin cos he used to conspire against me lol.

Lupin today has found a new place to hide by back door cos he actually escaped 3 days ago  my bloomin stupid fault and he no fear at all.

[funkiechicken]

  i'm so pleased! and well done Sasa 

Poor Lupin! it must be shock after being practically a law unto himself for a while lol but least all it is taking is a little meow and not full on spit and fur!! and i'm pleased that they are getting know each other and when they do all (apart from Lupin) start to come and go he wont be a reason for her not to come in anymore 

Hopefully she will get there with her fur  the onset of the winter shed may help as her new summer coat will come through all lovely and hopefully alot of her dirty fur will be what falls out!?? I hope so anyway! save her having the big task of grooming it all out x

oh dear...i think Lupin may be biting off more than he can chew with Misa then?  I am sure Misa will dig his paws in and wont give up Top Cat to a little baby lol things will settle once Lupins place has been established. Which unfortunately is probably the bottom  Its probably best if Misa is allowed to inspect his kingdom and get the fresh air he cries for. As he's Top Cat and the general idea is that if he accepts/is happy then everyone else will be (apart from Lupin!) like the ripple effect lol
Out of Tazi and Nugget, if we moved and i had to keep them in for any period - even though Nuggie generally hid for a fortnight anyway, all anarchy would errupt if Tazi blatently wanted to be out. He'd be naughty, beat up Nuggie, who'd then also be naughty  he jump out of bedroom windows, prise his way through the smallest of cracks - everything. Had me a nervous wreck  The last time i moved - he'd escaped within 3hours. My experience taught me not to acknowledge it as he'd just take off if i tried to get him. So he sunbathed on the lawn while i was still moving boxes in and he settled straight away! Still had me a nervous wreck  but he was strong minded and I knew he was happy as long as he was with who he knows best, me & nuggie 

Oh dear - i hope it doesnt affect Ducha. Like you say he's too old for too much upset. I just hope the confrontation they had has called a truce or an unspoken understanding rather than causing Ducha stress 

I dont know what type of barrier it is - but have you thought about maybe investing in a large piece of clear or slightly tinted perspex (dont want them running into it!)? the solid stuff? and get a cat flap put in it? with Sasa being able to see whats on the other side coming in/going out then she might feel more relaxed using it? as she'll recognise its the part of the house she wants to be and the house wont look 'blocked off' when she peers through the first flap?? I dont know whether this would work but as a barrier is needed it may be worth a go. You could also just put it up for 5mins every now and then and extend the time (and maybe rubs her bedding over both sides). Then it isnt so much of a shock when it goes up more permanently.....or have it propped up against the wall and the cats will rub it and scent it for you before you've even put it up? - you could actually get it fixed on hinges like a door for your easy conveniance if you needed it Other than that, i cant think of anything effective enough to keep one cat in and allow the others to roam free 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Well the situation is very good considering 

Sasa now spends most of her time upstairs, on my bed or behind it and she has pushed some noses out of joint,

With a feral matriochial air she has put Lupin in his place without doing more than a hiss and a growl and now a little meow if he dares to come close.

She lies on the stairs at night and Lupin is too scared to try and pass her and heard a little meow when I had got up and didnt know if it was Lupin or Sasa.............she only used to squeak until she was trapped........and it was Sasa lying on the stairs with Lupin below her who wanted to come pass but couldnt 

She is not having much luck getting her fur white again and the colour is all over her chin now........wish I knew what it was, not that I can do anything about it.

She is eating well and using the tray and seems to have totally settled indoors, which is more than Misa has, he wants to go out all the time and is not very happy. I will let him out of the window if he wants and nobody else is around and all he wants to do is just inspecktorate his garden and sit out there watching.

Lupin is challenging Misas position as the top cat and keeps having a go at him and Misa got quite angry for Misa.........a gentle boy............a few moments ago and he was moaning and wopping like crazy when Lupin started snaking along the top of the cat tree and trying to get Misa.

Ducha is the other one that Sasa scares and I dont need him to be worried about eating, using tray or drinking in his bedroom as he is now 18 1/2 and I thing going downhill quite quickly now due to is age. They dont fight but think her presence is enough and there is history here.

When Ducha and Napoleon first arrived Ducha was very protective of Napoleon and he thought Sasa had had a go at Napoleon and he had cornered Sasa on the stairs and I saw him go for her throat.

Sasa is a big tortie and Ducha is a little birman with 3 legs!

Right Misa and Ducha are now peacefully on the tree, dont know whre Sasa is cos couldnt see her in the bedroom lol

My thoughts however where straying to what happens when its time to open the flap again in a couple of months cos Lupin cant go outside as its too dangerous and its the barrier I had in the hall which is the worry to Sasa buit need a way of keeping Lupin in the house....................help!

Misa had started going through the flap iin the barrier just before I caught Sasa and he was also going through the flap in the shed.

[funkiechicken]

I've only just seen this, with connection problems or getting booted off mid-way through my 'catch-up'....thats what happens when i changed my login times from late at night/early morning to just before work and evening times! its a hint i think lol

How are things with Sasa now, Gill??

Hope shes settling in a bit more and not hiding in whichever mysterious hiding place she has found  they do get in some bizarre places and Nuggie is king of the hiding....still not sure where it is, but i can look for him and hes not there and i turn round and hes there like somethin out of Thriller/Horror Movie 
We did also lose Peanut  who was found tucked right at the back of the wardrobe fast asleep....probably wouldnt have been so bad if i hadnt actually unwittingly locked him in it  Just glad he's not like Tazi who would of shredded a few items of clothing before realising that escaping was futile and then going to sleep 

Sounds very much like Sasa is accepting your affection - although shes not quite sure how to feel  and when she is out of her hidey place she seems relaxed with everyone, as she would be alert rather than sleeping on the work top. I think once everything has settled down they may interact a bit....especially with little Lupin! Bless his clumsey paws 
I'm sure he'll have a few bops on the nose, to "get that kitteh in line" ( ) teach him the Do's & Don'ts and then order will be restored 

It is hard not to worry about them and I know i do when mine go out or if they're not back after a mental length of time 

It was also very stressful bringing Peanut home and the fear of his & Nuggies confrontation, my heart  pounded constantly for nearly 3 weeks 
Its only because i so desparately wanted everything to work out and in truth i think my state of panic just put the cats on edge  I've relaxed now and things are better. Its a strange relationship they have and theres still the odd 'Boxing Match' but they are more relaxed about things. Half of it is Grumpy Nuggie who is just mortified this cat has the cheek to a) be in his way b) wants to eat his food c) wants to sleep on his/our bed. Thankfully Peanut is not phased by this and just does what he wants, a thump on the nose or not....but the next breath they sleep inches away from each other, follow each other outside and sit inches away....they dont tear chunks out of each other and Nuggie is twice the size so could go for it if he really wanted to...(and would if he didnt like something) so I think in his own way, hes accepted Peanut. They're both happy so i think it was success?? (I hope  lol)
But, point is, you have relative calm - if not a food thief  so all is going in the right direction, isnt it?  There'd be fur flying if Sasa was so upset about the whole thing and was determined to leave and get out. The grooming is obviously a sign that she is settled and is taking care of her self  ....i just hope she manages to work her dirty fur and finally be white again 

[thekittensmittens]

oh god gill

i think you are going to have to calm down and have a rest, so long as they arent tearing chunks out of each other im sure they are ok
if you are tired everything is going to seem magnified , i know as dont sleep at night myself then everything stresses me out so the non sleeping gets worse:innocent:

Sasa is going to take time settling back in and the others will be a bit put out seeing her now in the house instead of her usual outside haunts so im sure some weird behaviours will continue for a while but at the end of the day they arent neglected and are well loved so probably just all playing you up for attention...
try to ignore it if you can, Misa sounds like my Mo with the food, I dont know how to cure that, tbh my kids fight over dinners and they are all the same , I think cats just know how to wind their cat siblings up the wrong way Mo goes out of her way to lick the other twos dinners before eating her own, she must know it winds them up

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Yes you are right Dawn but am exhausted............I thought after all the worry of Sasa going missing and sleeping in the rain and the frost I would be sleeping better................but I am not lol

The cats are all asleep right now and I am too tired to move!

[Dawn F]

its tough Gill I know but I think if you can just go with it for a while it will sort itself out in the end - I never thought my lot would settle but they did

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Have changed the title!

Madam Sasa is back in hiding, have to think this is mimicking what she was doing outside and last night she came out and was back on the working top still when I went to bed,

She cried at me during the evening cos Lupin was too close but she didnt move a muscle LOL

Misa is snaffling everyones food cept his own and its a real pain during the night cos keep being woke up by Ducha to tell me there is no food in his dish and he needs some,

Lupin is lost poor boy, nobody wasnts to play with him and Misa steals his toys and glares at him if he gets too close, Misa is definately top cat and Lupin is feeling the strain.

Sasas tummy very upset so need to start treating that today, I think she is starting to drink but am also putting water in her food.

[souffle]

Glad she is back and hopefully soon you will be able to sort out the fur staining issue 
Monty has a hiding place 'inside' our sofa. There is a little hole in the bottom and he somehow gets in there I only knew he went in there when the dog lay by the sofa one day then leapt up and I saw a white foot poking out scratching him 

[maryas]

OMG Gill, you've certainly been through the mill as they say.  We really do worry too much and no matter what we tell others and are told by others we still do worry.  Ruddy big softies the lot of us 

Hope she can lick herself clean and learn to enjoy some home comforts instead of hiding, the little S*D.

If she does go in to hiding again, try cooking some fish, the smell might tempt her out.

Mary

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Thank you all 

I have been stroking her again but have learnt when to stop I hope I got it right! She is back on the working top snooozing.

She has all her signals mixed up head butting for strokes with a wildly waggin tail........sigh

Her fur is ginger coloured and also paws and under chin, have to think its colour washed off something, the back end is very bad and tummy fur......it maybe from wet soil........clay or from a fence cos its a paler shade of my fence pamels, they come sorta orangey. She should be white.

She is in a mess and has spent all evening grooming to no apparent effect.

Lupin is not amused cos all the things he thought he owned now seem to belong to Misa  and he isnt getting away with his bullying cos Misa is wopping back and standing his ground. Lupin has no interest in Sasa which I am pleased about at present cos she needs to settle.

I am shattered from feeding, litter trays and generally running around after them all and cant remember who has had food or stolen someone elses...............sigh

Last night had 3 cats in the bedroom and Misa has remembered his place on the bed but keeps eating Duchas night food!

MIsa is deliberately ignoring Sasa, almost like he is punishing her for staying away for so long.

I thought cats were supposed to help us relax!

Its absolutely chucking it down outside so am very pleased Sasa is finally inside.

I know she hides in the study......well I think, but then she comes out to groom, eat . use the tray and get strokes 

[Peggy C]

Have jsut seen this thread  So glad that Sasa has reappeared   I thought no one could panic as much as I do about my furry friends   I think my non feline addicted friends think that I am mad
Settle down now and have a peaceful night
Peggy

[Ann Clarke (Tabby cat)]

Glad you know she's inside Gill,it's amazing where they can get to.I can certainly sympathise, you might remember the time I lost Hobbes in the front bedroom when Luna spooked him. I was absolutely beside myself cos I knew he was there somewhere but couldn't see him and worried he was stuck. He eventually came out of his own accord after ignoring all my calls and rattling of the treat box. I also lost Dylan in the house one day, couldn't find him, he didn't come out for his treats and I had to go to work and worried about him all day. Sure enough when I got home he came to greet me like nothing had happened! Hopefully now she's back inside she will gradually get used to things again xx

[thekittensmittens]

whats the matter with her furr gill

I had a worrying day with Miyagi today he went out at 7am and has only just come back his safety collar is missing and he smells of other peoples houses, he is also suspiciously dry and clean seeing as it is wet, muddy and windy here. hes now back on his ban

I think cats may drive us all to an early grave, at least with my teenagers i know where they all are when they go out, I didnt realise the stress of letting your cat outside would be so bad

Im sure Sasa is ok Gill, its the mother/guilt instinct you are feeling

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I am pretty sure sure was in the study cos thats where she emerged from a bout half an hour ago to eat her food .

She is grooming and grooming cos she is trying to get her fur nice again but its still all ginger ande just hope its nothoing bad cos There is nothing I can do about it.

She has just tried to say hello to Misa and he just pushed past ignoring her 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

You'd be amazed how they manage to hide themselves.  I frequently lose Mosi (and occasionally Jaffa) and that's in a one bedroom flat!

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

She is like a Ninja assassin by the sounds of it, hiding well!

Yes LOL

[thekittensmittens]

you need to leave recording equipment out by the sound of it! at least shes in, im sure she will come around to being indoors soon, it may be when you finally fall asleep
i was mauled awake by georgia this morning, licking my lips, pawing my hair and kneeding my face, if i tried to hide she just got me from the other direction

[Shiroi-Neko]

She is like a Ninja assassin by the sounds of it, hiding well!

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I havent seen her but she has sneaked out used her tray ........stinking house out..........and eaten her dinner, so am relieved cos know she is 100% in the house.

Lupin stilll cant find her.

So I know she is not trapped anywhere but she obviously doesnt like me any more cos this is just like her living outside but now in the house..........sigh

I hope she will eventually, probably during the night in the dark, investigate the house and get more happy to show herself.

[thekittensmittens]

well the good news is shes inside...I had this with Mo the other week, my son had left back door ajar so i went flying to find mo and she wasnt there i looked in the cupboard she normally hides in, shouted her and she didnt come out(she normally does) so i went biserk running around the block shouting for her in tears cos thought she had ran off, made show in front of the local youths as was describing her and they looked confused as i was just ranting about her being white n fluffy with gingery bits then ran off round block again, come home shouting my son was an idiot for leaving door open then Mo strolls out of cupboard

behind kitchen cupboards, inside wardrobes, washing machines , on top of wardrobes, behind wardrobes, under beds, behind back of beds..its suprising where cats fit but if you know she is definately inside then she is bound to stroll out soon, shes probs fast asleep so cant hear you...or sulking

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Thanks all and her skeleton is pretty big too!

[Dawn F]

she is lurking somewhere - remember although she is big they can get pretty small, she is only really as big as her skeleton

[Skiddaw]

If it's any consulation, our Munchkin went missing the day after he came to live with us. Like you, I knew he couldn't have got outside as the cat flap was locked but could we find him anywhere? We were in a right old state. After many hours, I eventually tracked him down- he'd managed to get around the back of the boiler and behind one of the kitchen units  . As he was always a big boy we then had a further panic as to how he would ever get his enormous tummy out again (a bowl of cat milk did the trick- he was out in seconds, albeit rather dusty!)

She'll turn up.  You've probably been past her at least six times. 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Well its raining now and lights on and gave up looking cos cant think of anywhere else to look but cant help keep looking out the window.......sigh

Have retaped the door where she had a little go at it during the night but not aqs much as the night before.

I hope I do find at least which room she is in Emmy cos then I know which door to close so can get out at back 

[emmmy_lou]

Am sure she will turn up - you might not find out where her hidy place was tho 

[Liz]

Gill best advice I can give is to stop looking for her and she will come out in own good time she will be a confused about letting you stroke her yesterday and may want a little time to analyse all that has happened, somehow the ferals are so good at hiding and even if we look for them we can't always find them and even going room by room here and shutting off each room and swearing you have checked everywhere and think you are going mad the little darlings appear from nowhere wondering what all the fuss is about

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

thanks dawn

[Dawn F]

she is good at hiding Gill, she has been hiding from you for the last few weeks, stop looking for her for a bit and I bet she will turn up 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I just cant understand why I cant find her cos yes she is a big cat and a climber rather than a jumper and had she been climbing she would leave a trail of destruction.

Lupin has found a hole that he went into and even little Lupin had to back out but will go and pull out the junk and look although Lupin did seem like he had found her.

she must be inside either kitchen. utility room or study but have searched all but the place that lupin found is in utility room wher i have stuff piled infront of cupboard under the stairs,

i am shaking and not calm at all cos just worried she has found some way out but if so i am at a loss to know how unless she can open a door or window and shut behind her.

i darent open the back door in case she rushes me and would have expected her to be lying in the sun cos we have a fine but cool day with sun.

[CarolM (Wendolene)]

I agree with Dawn.  You know she's inside so don't panic.  I regularly used to lose Korky (who was a big cat) and never did find out where he went.  Sasa is clearly a cat who values her privacy and she is street-smart so it follows that she will also be house-smart (if there is such a term) and probably Lupin-smart too. Take a deep breath and relax.  Easy to say I know but I'm sure she'll appear when she's hungry. 

[Dawn F]

stay calm Gill, we've lost Tilly and Amber several times - inside wardrobes or under beds or duvets is usually where they turn up - once we never actually found Amber but she appeared a few minutes later wondering what all the fuss was about.  You know she is inside 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

For anyone who doesnt know Sasa was trapped in the house over 24 hours ago, after she had been living outside for 4 months or so, just coming in for food.

She had allowed me to stroke her for the first time ever yesterday.

Now she is missing and this is really stupid cos she only had access to 3 rooms and the cat flap is still blocked up and no windows or doors open to outside.

I just cant find her and have even set Lupin free into her rooms cos if she is there he would find her but he hasnt!

I know I am stupid panicking but I am and shaking cos just cant find her anywhere, I cant see how she could have got out so she must be in the house somewhere but where? And why cant Lupin find her?