Do rescues/shelter charge too much for their animals?

[JackSpratt]

That's a good idea, Miranda. A trial run with Lindsey and Lesleys concept....look forward to the findings.

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Yep, good idea Miranda - might be less off-putting to those who just need some gentle encouragement and enlightenment.   

[miranda luck]

I like promoting the overall cost to your rescue being advertised/highlighted in the reception/cattery maybe with the statement 'each cat costs the rescue a minimum of £££ for chip, flea, worm, vaccs etc ... we ask you for a minimum donation of £££. 

AND / OR

rather than putting a 'costing' on each and every cat (which could be time consuming) just highlighting one or two.  I would chose those individuals who had a 'one off' condition ie RTA, eye enuc etc.

I love that this idea is growing and Lindsey and Lesley are working together on it  .  How about you give it a trial and then let us know the response?

[Janeyk]

 I still can't help feeling though that many people go into animal ownership without any real thought as to what it will cost.   

Definitely,

I also suspect if I ran a rescue, very few pets would be rehomed as I'd likely put potential owners off at the first grilling interview!     

Me too 

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Some very good points made about the "cost per animal" argument.  I still can't help feeling though that many people go into animal ownership without any real thought as to what it will cost, and assume that if their cat or dog - or whatever - is a bit "under the weather" they'll be okay after a week or so (again, thinking of someone I know, here) and that neutering is unnecessary (especially if their particular pet is male gender) and vaccinations dangerous and just there to put money in a vet's pocket, and insurance is too expensive, or their missing cat has just "wandered off to die (cos cats do you know)....." etc etc.   

I suspect we all know people who have impulsively added a pet to their family, and then a few months later are looking to dump it one way or another because of cost/alleged "allergy"/inconvenience/ill-health or because "they're too tying....."      I also suspect if I ran a rescue, very few pets would be rehomed as I'd likely put potential owners off at the first grilling interview!     

[LesleyW]

What I am proposing to show is not the cost for each individual cat but the average cost for looking after a cat before it is homed.  I will list the things I do normally, ie first vaccination, flea treatment, worming, micorchipping, and milk formula, baby wipes, kitten food, cat litter etc for an average 9 week period.  I will also do one for adult cats to include neutering.  I don't think we need to necessarily justify the extra expenses we spend but just showing the normal costs I feel more than justifies the £60 donation I ask for.
 
 

[Liz]

Well having as many as some rescues have for homing living here at the Clan I see it from all sides!

I trap and neuter any ferals living in our area - I do however get a netuering voucher for them from my old branch of CP but we pay for a full de flea and worming tablet, Program Injection, Full set of boosters and of course an ID Chip should they decide that the outside for those who go back isn't what they want and if they stay inside sometimes we get them back again if we can catch them in the house - only cat who isn't ID chipped here is darling really nasty feral Ace but he is Profendered and wormed and is as healthy as a horse!

We also inject them all annually for everything and they also get 2 Program injectins annually and wormed every 3 months - and with my ferals it is a Bl==dy art form and spreadsheet

We are also in 2 minds about baby Charlies leg as he is trying to use the leg even though it is at an odd angle and Robin thinks we should possibly give the leg a chance - that will be about £2500 should our vets and the orthopedic surgeon think its viable - amputation is £300 but Oh wants to get expert advice before we move forward - fortunately baby Charlie is to young for the decision yet.

So our bills for vets for thebasics are like this - Worming £160 a quarter = Program injections £30.00 twice a year, Boosters £30.00 per cat annually - thats for the ones who live in the house - outside varies and who I can convince to go back in a trap!

Our food bill is in excess of £7000 a year - inside and outside are fed the same wet and dry

We spend this because we are very lucky and we can do what we love doing helping ferals and those in need

On top of that I have the Clan doggies Sky and Sunny who are both on Program tablets, injections, kennel cough and of course food!

[Tan]

Yes i can see ya very valid point there Julie

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Well here's the thing, see, girls.  If you put up a list of costs incurred to prepare a cat for rehoming, some people might think the cat is prone to illness or could suffer recurring problems similar to the ones listed in the future. They see a whacking great big bill and they worry it could all happen again in the future.  Not that we ever mislead people and always alert a potential new owners if a cat is likely to have a perminant problem requiring ongoing treatment, BUT... 

Very often following a period of living rough, a stray cat's immune system is weak and they pick up all kinds of bugs, as well as injuries which need treatment. It can often be the case that a stray needs £200/£300 pound spent to bring them 'up to spec'. When they are declared fit and well enough for rehoming and go off to a home environment to proper care, they might never have another day's illness in their lives.

Ask yourself this... if you saw on a convenient brakedown of charges displayed beside an adoption pen that a cat needed 3 vet visits and 4 different prescriptions costing a total of £85 for dietry based problems, might you not suspect that the cat has bowel troubles? Might you not worry it could recur?  I suspect you may think it's a strong possibility.... You'd be wrong because many strays suffer one off serious parasitic infestations which cause inflammed bowels and poor digestion as a result. 

In short, no... I am not keen on the idea of displaying the bills for each cat and it is bound to harm that cat's chances of being offered a new home. 

[Lindsey (thefunkyinuit)]

I would love one Lindsey.

  Great, I'll get something mocked up for you

[LesleyW]

I would love one Lindsey.

[Lindsey (thefunkyinuit)]

I know it wouldn't work for small rescues, but for larger rescues with proper premises and a reception area, how about a sign with "this month's vet bill"?

Ooooo! Lovely.  I think it could work for small rescues too?

This is a really good idea! I work as a designer at a sign company, I would suggest an A4 size acrylic sign with either holes for screw fixing or self adhesive on the back, It could have the text and then a space underneath to write the amount in with a dry-wipe pen.
I could ask if I could have some off-cuts of material & I could design and make them myself so It wouldn't cost anything.
If anyone would like one, please let me know and i'd be happy to help 

[Tan]

  It just goes to show that peeps just don't know what rescues do. It's actually quite annoying aint it and you want to shout it from the roof tops!
So this is def one area where the public can gain more knowledge and therefore the benefit rescues hopefully.

Do you think it would put homers' (not the simpson guy  ) off if the costs for the care of cats were shown on their pens with a standard notice of something like "This is the cost for caring for (name) our standard adoption fee is ... (or donations are welcome)  but we appreciate it greatly if you can donate a higher amount so we are able to help more cats?"
Ie give them the info of how much it has cost the rescue and up to them to donate more or not.
It wouldn't be so good if this does put people off though!

Every rescue i didn't know what it cost them for the cats i adopted but i would def be willing to reimburse it all.

[miranda luck]

[
the priceless line was "She isn't looking for any money for them" 
[/quote]

Oh how very generous of her!!!

[Mark]

This was a call tonight that kind of illustrates some of what rescues are dealing with. A woman said that her friend's cat unexpectedly had 4 kittens.    - the friend is pregnant herself. She asked if we can take them and possibly the mum as well.

the priceless line was "She isn't looking for any money for them" 

[Desley (booktigger)]

This has been an interesting thread, my standard response when people questioned our £30 adoption fee was that a female would cost you £42 to be spayed at the vets I use, and neuters were included in our adoption fee, never mind the flea/worm treatments (we didn't vacc or chip due to costs). The rescue I volunteer for now charge £60, but that includes neuter, flea, worm, chip and vaccine. One of the rescues in my area did used to have details of hwo much things cost in both their reception area and on the website, although they have changed their website now and I can't find it anymore - I think some of the costs were quite high though, and might have had the opposite effect

I did sometimes think that a compulsory donation prevented anyone giving more, and also sometimes a good home was more important than the donation.

While I have paid for very few of the cats I have had through a rescue, I have always done other things such as donating food or paying standing orders/membership fees (except for the last two, which I fostered/fundraised/did admin for)

I'm still on the shelf on compulsary insurance, partly because there are some poor insurance companies so some people would still be left without cover, and partly for the people who end up with a stray with health issues.

[Mark]

The other side of the coin is the woman who phoned on behalf of her brother. Imagine this is in a lazy drawl.

Allo - I'm, phoning up for my bruvver. He just got 2 kittens. Can you phone me about free spaying and anything else he is entitled to" Followed by the usual mobile number.

The E word is something that seems to come up fairly often. It is such a shame that insurance isn't compulsory.

[Rosella moggy]

That brought tears to my eyes Julie  in a good way.  The world has many very good people in it which is just as well as there are so many 

I agree Tan that I had no idea really of the costs and damned hard work involved in cat rescue before I discovered CC and Purrs even though all of our cats have been rescues.  I think I'm safe in saying that we pretty well always double the guideline donation and, as an aside, Covcats donation levels are definitely too low Angie   

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

How many people do the rescues have that come to them to adopt that presume the rescue has lots of public donations and funding? Do you find that it is most of the public and only the odd one that understands the costs and gives a good adoption donation?

I can only answer for the some of the enquiries we get here at Canterbury... I find the folks who don't understand what we go through are the folks who want something from us for nothing - neutering vouchers for example. Although we can sometimes negotiate a reduced rate for charity cases, often vets charge us the same price to neuter a charity cat as they would a private client. The voucher ensures we pay the shortfall between what the cat's owner can pay (often just a fiver  )and the actual price of the neutering. We have to stand in the pouring rain rattling collection tins to find that shortfall... yet I've come across people who think it's all for free and the vets just don't charge when a voucher is involved! One notable case I remember was a woman working in the county council accounts office who thought we were administering an EEC development budget from Brussels! 

As for people who adopt.... well the successful ones *have* put some thought into the process and done some research. Our rehoming questionaire is designed to test them on whether they have considered all factors.

I do recall one particular adoption donation which blew my socks off. And still brings a tear!  A young couple adopted the two remaining kittens from a little of 7 I had been fostering. When they came to view and to collect I told them how we had nursed this litter through illness and craddled them one by one as the died leaving just 2 healthy ones fit to start new lives. The hubby didn't say a word but he opened his wallet and entered the contents into my hands and closed my fist tight. When they left I counted in and there was over £300 in my hand! 

[Tan]

Very interesting thread 

I have always given as much as i can when adopting from the rescues especially since being on cat chat and here as i know so so much more what they go through to care and save the cats in their care.
It def is education that can help the gen public understand what costs are involved. I always grew up in a animal loving family with pets but i can remember when i 1st adopted animals of my own, i didn't know what i should have known about them.  Yes i know how to care and love them but to actually understand them in their natural ways and not just as hoomans think they should be.
This also was the same for the rescues i went to, i had no idea of what was involved for them, no idea of how much they need, money and courage to help the little ones.  I always admired rescues and always will. 

Sadly there will always be those who treat animals/pets as commodities and it's those who want to look for a "bargain" and think the rescue have endless resources.  I do think that big organisations like the RSPCA do give the public a view that they have endless funds from public donations and so many people don't realise the actual branches and small rescues struggle like hell to cope.

How many people do the rescues have that come to them to adopt that presume the rescue has lots of public donations and funding? Do you find that it is most of the public and only the odd one that understands the costs and gives a good adoption donation?

[Rosella moggy]

Talking of price tags for a cat is distasteful isn't it but a fact of life.  Perhaps you should provide a link to this discussion on the other site you mention Miranda?  I agree that listing costs incurred by rescues and other ongoing costs for potential new "owner" (how on earth can anyone own another creature  ) would be a good idea.

We currently have an 8 week old kitten with us waiting to be rehomed by CP.  So far he's needed treatment for fleas and worms and will get 1st vaccination next week.  Thankfully he seems to be a very healthy little chap despite being discovered bedraggled by a canal and hopefully will remain healthy.  Amazingly vet made no charge for consultation just treatment £5.40    so initially I thought he's actually cost us very little but realise I had ignored costs of his kitten food, accommodation, toys, cat carrier, litter trays/littter, sleepless nights, cleaning materials to clean up another cat's pee coz he can't use his normal peeing spot as kitten in "his" room (yes that's you Freddie  )  All of these things we have but they are not free. 

I should perhaps add that we have 6 cats already so really cannot fit in newbie.  Am sure this is why vet gives us freebie consultations on occasion as we are extremely good customers 

I know it wouldn't work for small rescues, but for larger rescues with proper premises and a reception area, how about a sign with "this month's vet bill"?

Agree; good idea.  Nothing to stop rescue's websites having a prominent banner giving this info too.

Just read your post Angie.  All I can say is I despair.  It must drive you crazy.  How do you keep your temper? 

OH just admonished me for spending time on here instead of playing with the kitten ..... so I better go 

[Angiew]

... or do some people think rescues don't pay vet fees and this is why they question adoption fees? 

The mum of the bloke who I got the garage cats off phones me most days (she doesn't pay for her calls) and she is always questioning me about costs and vets. They gave me a chq for £20 on the day to help cover costs.

This lady is shocked to hear that we have to pay vets bill, she keeps saying "you don't pay for that?". She herself is with the PDSA and quite proud that whenever she goes in with her dog she gives the £5 (instead of the paltry few pence that other folk give - her words). She gave them £10 to pts her last dog when the time came and said they looked surprised at this "as it costs nothing to pts a dog".

When I told her about the kitten and the charge of £260 at Vets Now, she said I don't know how you rescues do it. I did explain to her we were eating our way into our last legacy and there was no way we could survive otherwise. She thinks we get our neutering for free and I have told her at least 5 times we don't.

[miranda luck]

I know it wouldn't work for small rescues, but for larger rescues with proper premises and a reception area, how about a sign with "this month's vet bill"?

Ooooo! Lovely.  I think it could work for small rescues too?

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I know it wouldn't work for small rescues, but for larger rescues with proper premises and a reception area, how about a sign with "this month's vet bill"?

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

I have to say this is a really interesting discussion.

I personally quite like the idea of showing the "price list" as to how much it has cost to care for the particular animal that is up for re-homing, so that prospect owners get a good idea of what's involved in responsible pet ownership. 

I say this because I recently had a discussion with someone I class as an irresponsible pet owner.  She has a cat, and a dog.  She "acquired" both from a relative, who persistently never gave a damn about them, and the dog was frequently escaping, and being picked up by the local dog warden.

Unsurprisingly, it has done the same now that this individual has taken it on - it is an unneutered male, and on frequent search for hot totty.  She "can't afford" to have it neutered, and she tells me that "anyway it doesn't stop dogs wandering".  (She also endorses the same argument about her cat).  She also complained bitterly the last time she had to pay the local shelter to retrieve the dog, claiming that her Father had told her it was all a rip off anyway and that the "profits" all go to the police.....(?)

I don't think I need comment any further on the mentality of this particular individual, but I certainly feel that if anyone else who thinks like that should happen to enter a rescue and feel the prices are too high, it may give them a much needed reality check.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

So anyone who thinks a £50 adoption fee for a cat is expensive needs to research the true cost of vet care BEFORE they decide to keep animals. Why is the onus on the rescue to tell them? Even so, rescues always do talk about vet care when doing homechecks. It's made perfectly clear how expensive pet ownership can be. The new owners will have to pay these fees too when they take an animal home.... or do some people think rescues don't pay vet fees and this is why they question adoption fees? 

I think some people probably do think that rescues don't pay vet fees.  It's not so much a case of the onus being on the rescue to tell potential adopters about the cost of keeping a cat, but rescues need people to adopt animals and they need funds, so surely it's in their interests to educate the public about how much they spend on animals whilst in their care.  Cat rescue to most people means CP, RSPCA and similar large organisations and I think a lot of people think that such charities have plenty of money due to high profile appeals, occasional media reports of having been left large sums of money in wills etc.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Just spotted this...

But just to put things into context - on another (predominately pet ownership) forum, one of the members has suggested that no only do rescues charge too much - but "why don't they provide lifelong medical cover as well".  (!!!??!! I can hear your cries of laughter/tears now!)

When someone takes a conscious decision to adopt an animal from a rescue, to whom does that animal then belong? Whose responsibility is it to care and provide for it? If I bought a second hand car from you, would you come round and fill it up with petrol once a week? I don't think so! 

Miranda it's obvious to me you are spending far too much time in the 'wrong' company. Some people (I've noted a disparate percentage of dog forums) extend modern self-centred, selfish interested views into pet ownership in the same manner they would when choosing a pension scheme or a new cooker. They look for a 'bargain' and begrudge anything they perceive to be 'expensive'.... well animals are expensive, whether in the care of rescues or private homes, end of.  Such people rarely make good owners of rescue animals. What marks a GOOD rescue home out from the rest is that they have a preconceived acceptance that rescuing an unwanted animal comes with rewards which don't have a price tag. They are prepared to put the time, effort and money needed into nurturing those rewards and shaping them into a life long companionship. 

As for the folks who come up with those kinds of statements (about wanting life-long insurance and arguing 'costs'), well they are the kinds of people likely to view pets as commodities and unlikely to pass a homecheck as their attitude shows a real potential risk of failing to provide urgent vet care in a timely fashion. 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

As for CP, up until now, donations have been voluntary and can be anything from £100+ to a tin of cat food (yes really!) - I believe Julie was given a bag of cabbages or similar once  -

Actually it was an armful of Rhubarb. I had the running  for a week. 

Ie: Monty (and all the normal details)
PLUS:  Vaccination £18
           Flea tx        £8
           Chip           £5
           Dental        £89
           Neuter       £18
           BT              £20
           total          £158

Please tell me which vet charges these amounts because we'll all sign up.  This is more realistic in our area (Canterbury). We know we are cheaper here and other areas are paying a lot, lot more for basic vet bills.

First vaccination - £35, Full course £65
Flea treatment - £8
Wormer - £4
Chip - £25/£30
Dental - Anything from £80-£160
Neutering - Anything from £45 (male) to £85 female for flank spay, £110 for midline.

So anyone who thinks a £50 adoption fee for a cat is expensive needs to research the true cost of vet care BEFORE they decide to keep animals. Why is the onus on the rescue to tell them? Even so, rescues always do talk about vet care when doing homechecks. It's made perfectly clear how expensive pet ownership can be. The new owners will have to pay these fees too when they take an animal home.... or do some people think rescues don't pay vet fees and this is why they question adoption fees? 

[JackSpratt]

I definitely feel Teresas way of doing things is better. Assessing the home and the people; ensuring the lengths they'd go to ensuring their cats wellbeing; even if it means going without.

I actually got my oldest cat, Carrie from the RSPCA 15 years ago and she cost me the grand sum of £16.They now charge £60 a cat. Although I'll admit this isn't a large amount, affixing a price to an animal makes me a little uncomfortable.

[Ellen2010]

"There is more than just money involved here there is the time and patience of all of us to show the animal what love and true care is and to make sure they are going to a good and loving home".

I absolutely agree and I'm sure others do to.

But just to put things into context - on another (predominately pet ownership) forum, one of the members has suggested that no only do rescues charge too much - but "why don't they provide lifelong medical cover as well".  (!!!??!! I can hear your cries of laughter/tears now!)

Also - the general consensus (on that site) is that the rescues are charging to much.  They say things like I can get an animal from the paper/shop etc for much cheaper.

They clearly do not know/appreciate the costs and the fact that they are actually wrong in their assumptions.

Don't know if they still do but CP would do this except for ordinary costs such as vaccination and flea treatments if you adopted a cat over 10 years old with a medical condition, that required either or both, medication or special diet.

[sheryl]

A pet shop in town which sells kittens  charges between £75 and £100 per kitten and that is with no vaccinations or anything.
I wont start ranting about them because I have done so until I am blue in the face, I have reported them to the RSPCA more than once and still got nowhere!!

When I got Tiggy from Catkins my sister took her brother Barney, the lady who ran the rescue asked for £25 for both of them - we gave a donation on top and carried on donating until she sadly had to close. 

[Mark]

Sometimes during homechecks, if the donation subject comes up, people ask what a normal donation is. I remember one man - who lived in a large, detached house with several posh cars out the front asked me -  I said that if we get £50 or more, we are happy - he gasped and said "I bet you bloody well are!" - insinuating that we were making a killing out of it 
I soon put him straight 

[Angiew]

I did wonder about the rescues signing up to a 'paw mark' - like the kitemark which would identify the rescues animals as being neutered, vac and chipped.

Anyone like that idea?

in principal it would be fine but it would not work in practice. people buy 'pedigrees' without papers because they are cheap, yet the papers are supposed to ensure the pedigree.

It all boils down to lack of education, stupidity, greed and apathy. Don't want to offend anyone but the average pet owner is quite often clueless and then of course theres the trash - ask any cp neutering person what they have to deal with...

also, to administer this 'paw mark' would cost and no doubt this would have to be paid by the rescues and so it would be adding yet more cost to rescues for doing what they do anyway - unless you can do a deal with vaccine manufactures to help meet these costs.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

It's a while since I got my boys from a rescue (13 years ago) and I paid £12 for each of them.  They had had their first vaccination but I had to take them (and pay) for their second.  They were too young to have been neutered.  I think they were a bargain 

I don't think rescues charge too much and it's a pity so many potential adopters don't realise the costs incurred by rescues.  The charge/donation doesn't come close to covering costs.  I'm sure a lot of people would be more willing to pay if they realised but, as others have said, I think many feel that they are doing the rescue a favour by taking the cat and/or assume the rescue has plenty of rich benefactors 

I ask more for a pedigree cat, not because they are worth more in my eyes, but because unless the person is known as as good sort, I have learnt to distrust most people and I'm not going to hand over a pedigree cat to someone for £50 and then see one up for sale on the free ads for £200+. We do home visits and assess potential owners but I am well aware that if someone is out to con , I probably will not spot it.

I agree with that.  There's always the possiblilty that someone after a pedigree cat sees them as a commodity they can obtain cheaply from a rescue and then sell on at a ridiculous price.

[miranda luck]

I did wonder about the rescues signing up to a 'paw mark' - like the kitemark which would identify the rescues animals as being neutered, vac and chipped.

Anyone like that idea? 

[fluffybunny]

Also - the general consensus (on that site) is that the rescues are charging to much.  They say things like I can get an animal from the paper/shop etc for much cheaper.

Ask them how many of those animals from the paper/shop are neutered, vaccinated, wormed, chipped, flea treated...they'd soon find out that if they choose to care for the cat they purchase properly and responsibly, that it would add up to a whoooole lot more.  Alas so many people are short-sighted and only see the costs of the 'there and then'.

I work with rabbit rescue and have found that people head for rescues because they think that it will be cheaper than buying one from a pet shop.  So the donation also serves to ensure that the person isn't just thinking that this is a cheaper way of getting an animal.  Nothing wrong with being thrifty of course, but it does certainly set off alarm bells! 

[miranda luck]

I'm also getting similar views (too expensive) from some of those 'free ad' sites and boy - there are a lot of animals for sale on there. 

tell us about them, we often try to intervene on them - like our bottle feeds. FTGH at 4 days old after their mother was killed by a dog

That's dreadful. 

[Angiew]

I'm also getting similar views (too expensive) from some of those 'free ad' sites and boy - there are a lot of animals for sale on there. 

tell us about them, we often try to intervene on them - like our bottle feeds. FTGH at 4 days old after their mother was killed by a dog

[miranda luck]

I hope you are passing back some of our comments to them then - or if you'd like to pm me the site , I'll go on there.
[/quote]

I am! I don't think you would want to go there! I'm also getting similar views (too expensive) from some of those 'free ad' sites and boy - there are a lot of animals for sale on there. 

[Angiew]

But just to put things into context - on another (predominately pet ownership) forum, one of the members has suggested that no only do rescues charge too much - but "why don't they provide lifelong medical cover as well".  (!!!??!! I can hear your cries of laughter/tears now!)

Also - the general consensus (on that site) is that the rescues are charging to much.  They say things like I can get an animal from the paper/shop etc for much cheaper.

They clearly do not know/appreciate the costs and the fact that they are actually wrong in their assumptions.

I hope you are passing back some of our comments to them then - or if you'd like to pm me the site , I'll go on there.