Raw feeding

[butterfly32b]

Hi Gillian.

PP, give less than 1/4 tsp a day, with my two I know the older one is more established in her digestion and rarely gets tummy upsets, whereas little one still forming, hopefully it will be something he grows out of. 

FF, had a vet where we lived 5 years who encouraged raw feeding, looked into it and decided to take this route, it made sense going back to nature 

[Fire Fox]

Gillian is my guru of raw and helped encourage me to my first Food4Cats sample pack!    Butterfly I though you were in the States from your OP, my mistake. 

I don't find the premium processed foods to be cheap anyway, once you look at price per kilo. When I got Noah I wanted to be ethical, but soon realised ethical and high meat and my budget did not mix. I chose to stick with the high meat and let go of the ethics for a while as I do see the benefits in Noah. The main thing is his toilet habits, both frequency and smell and this was literally an overnight change when I took him off rice/ grains. As Noah is indoor due to a health condition (pododermatitis) I also to see him indulging in more natural behaviours, I was blown away by him chomping on his first chicken wing! I believe mental health is as important as physical health.

What started you feeding raw, Butterfly?

[Gillian Harvey]

How often do you use the Petplus supplement? I wonder if it could be that causing the occasional runs, as far as I remember it contains cereals like barley and wheat grass, as well as alfalfa which isnt really ideal for cats.

I feed some raw and I generally only give Lacto B if ever they've had a course of antibiotics, for about a week/10days following the end of the course, or for occasional upset tum, but its not something I'd give routinely. 

[butterfly32b]

Hi, ye I'll give the Lacto B a go to see what happens. my only concern was, he did have soft stool this morning and I had started giving him the Lacto B yesterday, not sure if this is normal to begin with.  Since this morning, he hasn't had any re-occurance and it's just a matter of waiting until he defecates again.

Nero can go through 3 rabbits a week so that's £3.49 each.  For Saffy, if I give her organic chicken, this could cost £15 for about 1-1 and a half week's supply of food.  Lately, I've been getting her free range turkey thigh from Waitrose who have a special offer 2 packs for £5 which gives me a week's worth of food. I guess people could say this is extreme to feed in this way but I figure long term, if it's going to save on vet bills and keep them looking healthy, it's worth the expense.  We feel, as like a member of household, you'd want to ensure the best be it a child or a pet 

We also have a rabbit and he gets the best quality hay mainly for his diet, organic vegetables and occasional fruit.  He's not fed on the rabbit mixes.

What benefits have you seen with yours since you've been feeding raw?

[Fire Fox]

LactoB is the beneficial bacteria (PRObiotics) themselves; VIYO supplies the soluble fibre that is food for the beneficial bacteria (PREbiotics) so they are different. LactoB will be the more effective product assuming there is any deficiency in the gut flora, if you have had soft stools then it is definitely worth trying.  Usually only a course of a couple of weeks is required not permanent dosing, which can be a waste of money in my experience with human clients. The only reason I have tried the VIYO is I got some free and Noah likes it with an egg mixed in!

Noah is getting a real mix - Orijen kibble, raw beef and pork mixes, chicken wings, rabbit chunks, cat food with a high oily fish content ... but I am moving over to more and more raw. I don't know if it's the same for you but it can be pretty cost effective to raw feed compared with most of the genuinely good quality pet foods?

[butterfly32b]

Thanks for your message, are you saying good or not so good to use Lacto B?  I did see the ViYO drinks but thought to explore the Lacto B as they both do the same thing from what I understand.  Nero seems to have taken to the raw but I did experience times where he wasn't so keen, though vet thinks may have been because his adult teeth were coming through.  Now and now he can get soft stool but not as bad as it was when I put him on raw chicken for some reason.  For now, I'll leave him on rabbit since he seems to be thriving on this.  The other cat Saffy eats raw but I use Instincts and mix it up with organic chicken or free range turkey and wild rabbit.  The only treat they have is before bed, verm x which I break into pieces and scatter on their cat skills board.  Saffy being older gets the occasional cooked turkey or applaws or equivalent (80:20 rule) 

[Fire Fox]

I can't see it would be in any way detrimental to supplement with LactB long term, simply that it should not be necessary as the bacteria *should* colonise the gut. I can certainly see why you would want to supplement taurine if your kitten isn't able to tolerate organ meats! I have wanted to buy some prObiotic treats but have only found them for dogs; Noah does have VIYO which is a cat milk with added prEbiotics.

Do your cats love raw as much as mine does? Noah leaped across the room the first time I cut open the packet of fresh chicken wings, and purrs like a train for any raw. The other day he stole some chunked rabbit that must have still been frozen!

[butterfly32b]

Hi FF, Yes I feed bone as well, rabbit ribs and also crushed neck, spine of rabbit.  I introduced kitten raw when we got him, chicken didn't agree with his tummy back then, touch and go with beed so I tried rabbit and this seems to have worked for him.  Asked my vet about taurine and add this in.  Genetrix do 'Lacto B' for cats and said, it can be used long term as an aid for digestion whether feeding raw or processed. Kitten occasionally gets the runs, and I tend to use pro-kolin.  I'm hoping as he gets older like the other one, his tummy will settle down and I can try him on other meats again.  He does have offal occasionally, again have to watch his tummy.  Pet plus seems to be a good supplement to add, I guess it's up to the individual feeder and depending on the cat/kitten as well as to what works for s/he.

[Fire Fox]

   We are not big on adding lots of supplements to raw food here in the UK, most people just try to get a balance from meat/ bone/ offal. Are you feeding any bone or just the supplements? I think raw bone is what helps bind up the stool.

LactoB is definitely used by some of the Purrs regulars especially after antibiotics or a stomach upset but I don't think specifically with a raw diet. I have had good results with my (human) nutrition clients with probiotic bacteria supplements tho. I don't know what the recommendations are for cats, but for humans you would only need a course not supplement with probiotics permanently.

[butterfly32b]

excellent, raw feeders found you guys  am newbie to the site so helpful to discuss with peeps in UK.  I raw feed both my cats.  Nero the 6 month is on rabbit which I get supplied from the local butcher and the other who's been on raw for 4 years or so, eats rabbit, chicken, turkey, beef.  I use Instincts powder with added beef liver for the older one, then for kitten, he has added supplement taurine, pet plus (you can get in UK).  Does anyone use Lacto B with raw feeding?  I read this was good for digestion especially in kittens who might have the odd soft stool, which mine does.  I contacted the company Genetrix today to find out about how much to give 6 month old kitten and whether initially, he would have soft stool.  They said give 1.5 g (using the scoop inside) and yes as with anything new, can cause soft stool to begin with.  Has anyone had any experience with this? 

[Fire Fox]

Ooh, are they doing chicken hearts now? excellent, I'm ready to put in a new order too......

Yes, and rabbit feet and ears complete with fur! I was not brave enough to order those, but did get pork tongue on the recommendation of someone from Purrs. Wonder how long it will take Noah to chomp his way through his own bodyweight in raw?

[Gillian Harvey]

I didn't select the cheapest stuff either, there is wild rabbit and chicken hearts in my order so you could get even more for your money.

Ooh, are they doing chicken hearts now? excellent, I'm ready to put in a new order too......

[Fire Fox]

I am unemployed as of yesterday. Although I don't raw feed full-time as yet I do think it has the potential to be very economical: I can't say the same for Orijen!

I just placed my second order with Food4Cats using the £10 voucher you get with the sample pack. In total I have 6.4kg of meat arriving tomorrow - Noah is 6.5kg and eats 200g per day - and the order cost just £9 delivered. I didn't select the cheapest stuff either, there is wild rabbit and chicken hearts in my order so you could get even more for your money. Sainsburys and Tesco both sell frozen bone-in chicken portions for just £1.40 per kilo, which is cheaper than most wet food. Morrisons have offal at a decent price, or you might get lucky and get butcher's freebies or cheapo offcuts if you are bold enough to ask.

I have been a little naughty and previously ordered a second sample pack to an alternative address, which means I have another £10 voucher to use ssshhh tho.  If you are noticing different food does effect Dave's 'output' then you will hopefully get a good result from raw feeding. I know what you mean about toxic days!

[Feline Costumier]

Dave has always been stinky, really toxically so! So I'm willing to try just about anything. He has Whiskas quite often at the moment because it was on special and I'm on a very tight budget till I can find work and I have to say those are the worst days.

[Fire Fox]

I can vouch for the improvement in litter tray content with a change of diet - Noah used to be on JWB/ Felix combo when in foster with reported three times per day stinkers. We are down to once a day with little or no smell tho he still has his moments! The other day Noah felt the need to return to the tray to make a better job of burying his offering.

Noah gets a mix of grain free foods now - Food4Cats, Feline Fayre, Bozita, Orijen - but has also used up a large selection of free samples of kibble. Because I am chopping and changing so much it's impossible to be scientific, but I am pretty confident that tuna cat food and anything containing rice results in whereas the raw seems to give the best results.

[Feline Costumier]

I'm not sure Lottie, memory like a sieve! I'll give them a call tomorrow and see, if not I will ask to have him tested, thanks.

Good to know the food is complete, I think it's a road I'd like to go down anyway so when I can I'll start the switching process.

[Lottie (Team Svartalfheim's)]

Just a thought, has your vet tested for T. foetus? T. foetus apparently *stinks* but other than poo probs cats with it seem otherwise fine. Def worth checking for.

Food4Cats is complete as far as I am aware, I have certainly never added anything to it. You can also buy powder from Zooplus that will turn any meat into a complete meat as well which is handy if you run out of pet complete raw and need to buy meat from the supermarket: http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/supplements_specialty_cat_food/fur_skin_supplements/155860

HTH

[Feline Costumier]

Hello! Never normally post in here

So, my ongoing battle with Dave's guts has me frustrated. We know there is nothing wrong per se, just he's got a bit of a sensitive tummy and adjustments to the way I feed him have helped. He now gets three - four smaller meals a day as opposed to two as he just wolfs it down and then pays for it in the tray (more like my nostrils pay for it!). We have poo's that vary from very soft to just about solid but he hasn't done a normal solid poo so far as I can tell since I got them back last year (he and Chilli often go overnight so there's no telling what belongs to who). The smell he emits is literally breathtaking! He's in great condition and very happy in himself so no worries there.

I am now thinking about going down the raw route as he loves his raw meat and Chilli would come round as she nibbles on it. They both much prefer higher meat content foods anyway, Whiskas et al often don't get eaten in one sitting which is virtually unheard of in this house.

So what I'm wondering is, I know I can get the food from Food4cats but I'm wondering if I need to add any supplements to this diet? Or is it complete due to it having bones and fur and all ground up in there?

Any help would be appreciated!