The "argument" why should FIV cats not live with none FIV?

[Sylvia]

As long as they are neutered i dont see any reason why FIV cats can't be allowed out.
I know of 3 well known rescues that also agree with this.

It was because of what I had read on the CHAT website, and about the studies being run by Glasgow University, though I can't remember where I found this, that we decided to do this.  Also, Tatty had been associating with our 4 non-FIV kitties for at least 2 or 3 years, maybe even longer, before moving in and being neutered, and hadn't passed it on to them.  After he and Tabs were neutered, they became even less likely to do so.  Had either of them shown any aggression other cats, then we would not have been able to do this 

Michelle, i know of CHAT, who are the other 2? 

I would be interested to know too 

[Millys Mum]

Thanks Sylvia, Tabs pics are always good  hes the picture of health

Michelle, i know of CHAT, who are the other 2? 

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

My FIV boys are indoor/outdoor cats, as are all my boys and girls.

I'm pleased to hear that.
As long as they are neutered i dont see any reason why FIV cats can't be allowed out.
I know of 3 well known rescues that also agree with this.

[Sylvia]

Sylvia are your 2 indoor boys?
Must be time for some Tabs pics 

My FIV boys are indoor/outdoor cats, as are all my boys and girls.

If I have done this right, you might find the odd pic or 2 of Tabs at http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,21655.0.html.

Good on you Sylvia to give these boys a chance, if only other people were so understanding and could make that bit more effort 

Thank you so much for that    I can only say that all my kitties make it so worth while, I only have to look at their faces to see that 

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

Good on you Sylvia to give these boys a chance, if only other people were so understanding and could make that bit more effort 

[Millys Mum]

Sylvia are your 2 indoor boys?
Must be time for some Tabs pics 

[Desley (booktigger)]

I dont test Liz, as I dont have any concerns on my two - they are 16 and 18, both female, and bloods show in good health, so even if they are positive, it obviously isn't an issue. Only one of mine has ever been tested, and that was when Tiger had an unexplained high temp, the vets insisted. I only let cats mix after gradual introductions when I am happy that there wont be any fighting, any that show any signs of aggression aren't mixed, so I am happy with doing that. When i move somewhere I can have an enclosed garden, I wouldnt mind having FIV+ cats

[Sylvia]

We have 2 FIV and 4 non-FIV cats who live together.

Tatty was our first FIV kitty to join us, and at first we thought we would have to split our house into 2 separate sections, one being an indoor FIV section, and the other being the non-FIV section with access to the catflap and the outdoors.  This was because Tatty was a stray, and very frightened, and the all the vets appeared to think that he as unhandleable.  However, with time and care, Tatty has turned into one of the soppiest cats I know, and after extremely long and slow introductions to the rest of the furry gang we became one big happy household again 

Tabs is our latest FIV kitty, who joined us about 8 months after Tatty did.  Tabs was also a stray, but was more people-friendly than Tatty had been to start with.  Yet again, we set aside a couple of rooms for Tabs, and left the rest of the house for the rest of the gang.  However this time the kitty introductions took a lot longer because Tabs kept going for the rest of our furry family, but eventually things did settle down  and we are back to being one household again.

I would agree others, that where a cat still remains aggressive, whether it be FIV or non-FIV, then the integration of both may not be possible.

I can't emphasize enough the importance of neutering, as once Tatty and Tabs had been neutered, their behaviour calmed down a lot.  Having said that, it still depends on the character of the cat as to whether they may ever be happy living with other cats.  If they are already part of the family group, and get along OK, I see no reason why that should not continue.

As for the day to day care, both FIV and non-FIV kitties are treated the same.  They all get the same food, which is as good a quality as we can afford.  Tatty and Tabs have their own specific bowls for wet food.  I have to feed Tommy (my non-FIV diabetic kitty) separately, because I need to know that he has eaten, so that I can give him his insulin injection before I leave for work.  We keep an eye on anything that could develop into an infection of any kind, no matter how small, in addition to whether there are any changes in eating, drinking or behavioural habits amongst other things, and whether they are FIV or non-FIV, they are off to see the vet immediately.  I think that I now qualify for the title of Paranoid Hypochondriac Kitty Mum, however, I believe that it is always better to be safe than sorry.

In addition to the article on Cat Chat, I also found that the Celia Hammond Trust webpage on FIV was reassuring for new owners of FIV and non-FIV kitties http://www.celiahammond.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=14&MMN_position=21:21.

[Liz]

Just on your point Des you mix fosters and your own so do you test both for FIV when you introduce new cats each time or do you let it be

I know some CP branches will not allow fosterers to mix any fosters with their own cats either

Its also an interesting point that I have always covered all the necessary tests except Blue and Holly for FIV status where we have ben asked to by CP - they would have heart failure with the bill and that would include my nice chunky discount to!

We have a couple of un-neutered males - not trapping currently as its been to cold and I have 27 indoor/outdoor who could encounter them so what will be will be - interestingly enough Blue tested negative at Glasgow Vets Scholl and he is around 2ish so heres hoping Red and The dark coloured boy do to but hey ho they will be TNR hopefully and let go back to their outside quarters once trapped - hopefully they won't have Blues medical problems!

We perhaps are lucky that ours are used to cats and kittens and puppies coming and going and really pick their own mates amongst our crews currently Blue thinks Sweetie our oldest Lady is his new best friend!

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

No none of mine have been tested except Ollie, and he was only tested to determine wether his illness was caused by FIV.

None of my cats go out either, they can go as far as the back garden, Ted has just managed to escape from the house and was crying at the back door 2 minutes later 

But if Ted was to go out yes he would fight with any cat he come across, him and Harry were like the Krays around here. Ted used to be "top cat" where we used to live so I think this is why he is like that.

[Millys Mum]

Is Ted tested CC? Imo theres 3 categories to FIV and they are negative, positive and untested! Any cat that fights regularly is in the high risk group, they tend to be entire but there are neuters like your Ted who probably squares up to all the local toms.
Another good reason for keeping cats in at night away from toms looking for trouble

Cat chat have an excellent article on FIV http://www.catchat.org/fiv.html

On the mention of legal things and reputation, CHAT are a very well known and highly respected charity, they dont seem to have suffered for their approach to FIV cats?

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

The legal side is def something we have to consider....!!

[Desley (booktigger)]

CC, I think it is more not putting your cat at risk of something that will affect their immune system and may cause them health issues. My local RSPCA pts because they aren't confident enough that cats with FIV dont suffer, which I dont agree with. The main rescue round here that does rehome them wont allow them to go with other cats due to the risk - I suppose from a rescue's point of view, there is the legal side to consider - if we rehomed a cat with FIV to a household without, and they fought and transmitted it, they could end up causing us a lot of hassle for infecting their cat, and their cat might end up being the poorlier out of the two, they might try and make us pay all the bills, or bad mouth us, and it could seriously affect the charity, and also affect us helping more cats.

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

Hi all
We home FIV as indoor cats.. as thats CP policy..but hand on heart i have no idea if people do let them out a few years down the line do i?
Also we have had a few cases of females with FIV (although rare) mainly oldies, the last one Genie was probably 15 or so and died of something completely different then the FIV.. Many FIV succumb to things other then FIV..

However, saying that some parts of the country finding indoor homes for puss cats is hard and FIVs are PTS... Some CP branches still do and most RSPCA do...a few independant rescues in Thanet are so "terrified" of FIV that they do as well, as they think in a cattery its so bad and they cannot risk it. Despite what i tell them.. A small rescue that covers the same area as we do PTS all pos kittens, despite me telling them that if they get in FIV cats or kittens to give me a ring as in reality FIV kittens can be rehomed... But they never do..!

Anyhows...with luck abit more knowledge will get out there and more branches be aware that FIV isnt actually "bad" news.. it just means rehoming differently.. However.. it is in aggressive cats ad we couldnt hand on heart guarantee that people wouldnt dump them again or of course keep them indoors. and some just dont change their character and want to go outside.. Sometimes its an judgement call i suppose

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Michelle what about neutered cats that are aggressive, with FIV and going outside? My Ted is very aggressive outside and will fight with other cats, he doesn't have FIV though.

In that case then no!
It would be wrong to let an FIV cat that you know will fight

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

Thanks Mrs R, I'm always full  good ideas  lol

Ah right so it could be a secondairy illness that gets the cat ill because of their lowered immunity, not the actually FIV causing them to be ill every time.

Michelle what about neutered cats that are aggressive, with FIV and going outside? My Ted is very aggressive outside and will fight with other cats, he doesn't have FIV though. I would not like someone to let their cat with FIV roam the streets in case my cats caught it........ which leads me back to the question.... why should we be so afraid of our cats catching it, if there is nothing major to worry about?

Going round in circles here but I guess a cat could live a long healthy life eg Max, and some cats dont take it so well.

[MrsR]

Interesting and informative thread.

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

Ok,
I would be happy to have an FIV cat with my lot , infact number 11 "TRAMP" was an un-neutered stray so chances are he has it.

I also dont agree that FIV cats should be kept indoors if they are neutered

Just my opinion

[clarenmax]

Clare, when Max gets sick how would you know wether it was his FIV causing it or not, are there different symptoms when its caused by the FIV as to an "average" illness?

To be honest, since I adopted Max 8 years ago, I think I can safely say that he's not had any illness actually related to the FIV.

If you think about it, when its at the FIV stage, its simply a lowered immune system, so if properly managed, then illness is (hopefully)  not very likely.

I guess if you have a cat with more advanced FIV, who perhaps has had full access to the outside and other animals, then perhaps illness is more prevalent.  Certainly when I first did research on FIV, the reason so many cats were Pts when diagnosed was due to the cat actually being very ill when actually tested, so people automatically assumed that FIV was in instand death sentence.

With Max's most recent diagnosis, i.e. the kidney disease and thyoid, again I've read a few articles which state that FIV cats can be more prone to such things, but to be honest, he's about 11 years old, so its more likely to be age related to be fair, certainly the insurance had paid out as an ongoing condition, which I don't think they would have done if they could have definitely related it to the FIV.

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

Something interesting I found- most high risk areas in the uk for cat flu-

http://www.vaccinationmonth.co.uk/images/cicada/catflu_small.jpg

I suppose this is why some cats are found with it and some are not, in certain areas.

Clare, when Max gets sick how would you know wether it was his FIV causing it or not, are there different symptoms when its caused by the FIV as to an "average" illness?

[Millys Mum]

FIV is 'controlled' by keeping the cat well looked after, you can only do what you do normally for other cats, quality diet, vet care etc
I agree with what CHAT do and rehome these cats with outdoor access, its more often than not young male entire strays that are infected and not all of these are going to settle as indoor cats after being free spirits so i think a possible shorter life but happy is the way to go, obviously having outdoor access could make them more vulnerable but no one actually knows. Hence why some vets wont vaccinate positive cats and others think its more important to do so.

2 of my lot have been tested, Dexter and Simon- he was done before i got him although he would probably have been checked when his mouth was v.sore and he wouldnt have been relegated 
I had Dexy checked as hes a prime candidate for it having been a very dominant male in the area and no1 boss cat so was always in a mess with bites and scratches, he is also negative 

[clarenmax]

I can't comment too much on this as my boy is an only cat, and has always been indoor only since he came to me from rescue, having been diagnosed with FIV.

Probably the main problem with keeping FIV and non-FIV together would be if one or more cats had outdoor access, and the FIV puss had to be kept indoors, as they could cause problems if they use a catflat, i.e. restricting access with one and allowing full access for the other.

If cats are used to each other and live together, then one being diagnosed as FIV should not cause any other problems though, I would have thought the fighting issue would only apply to cats outside the home (where the risk is already removed by keeping as indoor cats), or if you introduced a new cat into an FIV household.

If I had more than one cat, I would have no problem whatsoever in mixing FIV and non-FIV, as living so near a very busy main road, they would be indoors anyway.

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

she had 8 months with us until the FIV took her from us

I suppose this could be a "for" for the against side, nobody would want to take on an FIV if it was risking their own cats lives. And I guess some FIV is more aggressive than others, which is how come some cats can have long happy lives and others not so long or happy.

Would be interested to know the daily goings on with FIV cats from their owners, what more is there to worry about and when they get an illness, how its controlled etc. Just in general how is FIV controlled?

I dont believe any cat with FIV should be pts for the risk of infecting others, only if they were in the later stages and obviously suffering.

[Liz]

We have had ours tested - firstly when we adopted Shadow a feral nobody wanted - his fosterer had had him for 6 months with his pal Blaize and Blaize tested positive for FIV after homing so CP requested we keep Shadow seperate - bit late by then we had had him for 4 months and he was mixing with our then 17 - all came back negative and a large bill but hey ho

We then adopted Hissy Holly another feral from our vets she was about a year old and had tested positive for FIV but it was Christmas and she needed a safe home so she came to live with our other 30+ - she hated people but loved cats so never any fighting ours are used to comings and goings due to us fostering and she had 8 months with us until the FIV took her from us

We then trapped Blue in about Sept 08 and our vets in tow with local CP tested him for FIV he is negative but I hadn't asked for the test and CP paid the full labs cost - our vet now knows that whatever we take on I'm not worried about FIV

We also had Gem with Corona which turned in to FIP it sadly took her from us despite a valient fight and Miss Beijing is a carrier has she left for life as an only cat no she is here forever= we take them on in some cases knowing and others not knowing the sadness these dieses can cause but we take them on warts and all and for however long they have they will be loved and cared for by us and the expense sometimes means beans on toast for us and Royal Canin for them but I know that both Robin and I wouldn't change any of the wonderful furkids that have graced and enriched our lives and left everlasting memories for us to look back on and enjoy

[JackSpratt]

Which would then cause the response, cats have a happy healthy long life with it, so why be so afraid of other cats catching it. See what I am saying?

Indeed I do. Valid arguments for and against I'd say, so all down to each individual rescue. (Or person!)

[Mark]

Same here. All four of ours are rescues and none tested for FIV. It's irrelevant.

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

Which would then cause the response, cats have a happy healthy long life with it, so why be so afraid of other cats catching it. See what I am saying?

[JackSpratt]

I'd be interested too. Maybe it's because you can't guarantee cats won't ever fight.

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

No Yvonne, I would just like to find out why?

I suppose there could be a reason one day, strays always seem to find me.

I had Ollie tested once, and it was neg, but with his problems and no vet we have ever seen is any the wiser (yes it would have to be me that takes a cat to the vets that they dont have a clue about  ) they say his gingivitis is cause by his immune system over acting, which I read can also be caused by FIV virus. Maybe I would like for some confirmation if Ollie did have it, so he could be managed properly.

I suppose none of us are vets so this is just going to be a discusion amongst people who know what they know about FIV.

[Yvonne]

Is there any reason why you are concerned?

Mine have never been tested for FIV and never will be.  In other words I do not know if they are infected or not.

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

I do wonder as to why this is said. So ok I know it would not be good for FIV and none FIV to live together if they fought bad, incase the none infected cat caught it. What about a cat that is already living as part of a group though, why should the cat/s found to be infected be rehomed?

And if FIV is nothing to be concerned about eg I hear people on here that are owned by FIV's say they have no different a life as a none infected would have. So why would there be a reason to remove a cat that is recently found to be FIV?

What Im trying to ask is..... if FIV is not really that bad, in terms of cats living long full healthy lives, why should we worry or not worry about our other felines catching it?

If one of mine was found to have FIV they would most certainly not be getting rehomed.