Constant aggression

[sillyrabbit]

Thank you for all your help by the way your a star 

He doesn't really do the mad chasing thing actually, Smirnoff does when its raining outside and she wants to play but thinks better of going out and getting wet! If its windy outside and everything is catching his attention he goes mad charging about in the same way though

Its mostly unexpected, like when you are just walking past or sleeping and he kind of just hangs off you. Then he will go attack something else, but will eventually come back over and lay down next to you and lick your arm or something bless him

Everyone says that about his name  It actually has nothing to do with the fact that cats hunt the choice of his name, my dads name was Hunter who Hunter the cat was named after 

To be honest I have so many books on our pets I will have to check I have those ones! I know I have Vicky Halls and Desmond Morris ones but again will have to check which books they actually are

I know insurance provides peace of mind, its just when I was looking at insuring my rabbits I noticed that the insurance did not cover quite a few of the most common problems so I would have been paying insurance but if they had to be operated on for something like dental problems I would have had to fund those myself anyway. I know rabbits and cats are completely different but if something was to happen I would rather know that I had been putting money into an account and its there to cover a vet bill no matter what it relates too if you get what I mean rather than be worrying about if its something that the insurance will cover  I know of two people at the same vet practice who both own a rabbit with the same illness and being treated at that vet, both insured with petplan but they will only pay out for one rabbit and the other has been refused as they say they don't cover it. Neither rabbit with previous problems. Stories like this just scare me!

We don't have the PDSA and stuff where I live but I am well used to large vet bills and know how much my surgery charge for operations/x rays/meds/tests/3am call outs and so on because ive paid for them all already with at least one of the animals Its cheaper to operate on Smirnoff than it is on my rats! Because im at my mums I have been in a position to save £1,000 plus a month and an awful lot of overtime and my annual bonuses have gone straight in to my vet bill account on top of that. I can honestly say even if they all fell ill at the same time I really don't think my savings account wouldn't be wiped out, and even if it was I have an emergency credit card that I only have incase that happens. Things like regular check ups/vaccinations/illness that only requires a visit and medication comes straight out of my current account. The savings account is only touched if I don't have money for bills that have gone into hundreds at that particular time in my current account, and so far has only been used once to pay for a blood test on one of my rats right after I booked a holiday because all other operations and stuff I have just paid from the money I have free that month for me

Hunter isn't actually my cat, although I know my mum has forms to fill in for his insurance about somewhere so I think she is planning on insuring him anyways

Thank you though  I will go check out the photos of Barney  x Edit! How gorgeous is he!! He looks lovely x

[Beanie]

Hi Sillyrabbit,

My first thought was that maybe Hunter had attracted some but slightly overzealous (not rough) play from somebody in his life, albeit well intentioned, when he was a kitten i.e. not gentle stroking and petting but slightly more dominant attention, such as rolling him over or rubbing his tummy a little harder that a simple stroke. Kittens learn to interplay and may take this type of behaviour as normal in contact with human beings. The kitten then grows up into a strong adult and this might explain the fearless attitude to life. It would explain the playful ambushes, etc.

From what you say it does not seem to be dominant behaviour connected to demanding food, more often associated with cats who spend most of their time indoors, even if it is their preference to do so. Does he have mad moments (not catnip induced) where he runs around the house at 100 mph? That can indicate the need to exercise more and/or some boredom.

Your comments do not suggest that the aggression is defensive born through fear and the vet has ruled out a medical cause caused by any pain or disease.

I find it interesting that he is called ‘Hunter’, although he does not appear interested in the rats or rabbits. However, I guess that it could be a play on words. I went to school with a guy nicknamed ‘Bruiser’. He got that not because he was 'hard' but because he bruised easily. 

How does he attack you? Is it when you are playing with him or is it part of a planned ambush when you pass? Does he grab your hand/arm/ leg? Some advice offered is to go limp rather than tense up if he grabs your hand/arm/ leg. Distract the cat with one arm ‘and then try to remove your gripped body part with the other hand.

We have one cat, which is very similar. Gradually, we are teaching him to play gently. We believe that his previous owners played rough with him but he is gradually coming round. You can see his photo in the ‘Gallery’ part of this website. His name is Barney.

I think it would be worth considering getting an animal behaviour specialist who specialises with cats.

I don’t know if any of that helps but I hope so. I should point out that I am not an Animal Behaviour Specialist but it is an area of welfare which I read about as it fascinates me. I am sure that you have read some of Vicky Halls, Roger Tabor and Desmond Morris who are renowned experts in this field and who have so much to teach.

One last thing not related to behaviour. I note that you do not have insurance. There are only two real options for cat health welfare - insurance or self funding. I do not know your financial position nor is it any of my business. However, if you haven't already, I would urge you to look closely at the ever increasing veterinary costs  - the vet or CP, RSPCA, PDSA, Blue Cross, etc. should be able to give ball part figures for different types of operation, medication, etc. It is only then that you can take a view and look at the possible amount of money that you would need to fund per annum. Insurance normally provides comfort and a known financial outlay and is the best course unless your individul circumstances are such that you can fund all eventualities. I mention this not to teach you how to suck eggs but because a good friend  (employed in finance) thought the same but had not done her homework; the costs for her cat's injuries and continued medication were collosal and stretched her beyond the limit.

 

[sillyrabbit]

The water sprayer doesn't work, he must be the only cat in the world who isn't bothered by water  He loves the shower and has jumped straight into a full bath of water and just climbed out and sat and looked at it. Had it been Smirnoff she would have been off straight away and not gone near the bath again!

He is restricted when nobody is home to the house, so during the day while we are at work or until my brother gets home from school but only because the dog next door has bashed holes all along the fence and has access to our garden whenever it wants no matter how much we try to block the holes and the cat flap leads to our garden. Unfortunately this also restricts my rabbits a fair bit but the owners of the dog are being difficult and we refuse to have the fence fixed again because they won't stop the dog breaking the next one and its getting expensive and ridiculous fixing something we haven't damaged every month. To be honest he was like this long before the flap was shut during the day anyways

He isn't insured, I have found with my other pets its better to save a vet bill fund so I have money there no matter what is wrong with them so we just do the same with the cats. Thats a good idea though and something we hadn't thought of  I will definitely look into a behaviourist x

[Millys Mum]

From your post he is quite restricted at times around and about? This could be upsetting him, idle paws make naughty games 

The best deterrent for bad behaviour is a water spray and if he is latched on dont squeal and wiggle about because thats more fun!
If you have insurance they often cover a consult with a behaviourist who can visit and advise on many things, a simple case of moving furniture that he can ambush you from could help.

[sillyrabbit]

Thanks guys 

We did meet his mother, she was just a black moggie like him. His father was their neighbours cat apparently and she said he is also just a moggie. Although she can't be certain of that unless she actually saw them mate because she let her unspayed female play outside! It wasn't actually someone we know personally, a friend of a friends sister or something and it was mentioned to us while we were out one night that these kittens needed homes so my mum offered to take one. He was parted from his mum at 8 weeks, it may have been 9 weeks when he came here and that was the very start of December 07

He is fine with Smirnoff, he has pushed his luck a few times but then thought the better of it and run away! They generally get on ok, mostly stay out of each others way but will both sleep on the end of my bed together and will eat together. She accepted him very well, to be honest she didn't seem to care at all and has never shown aggression towards him. She has swiped at him a few times like if she is sleeping and he is trying to catch her tail. But we haven't had any of that for a long time now so he must have learned!

I have four outdoor rabbits. Hunter is allowed nowhere near them, I won't risk it because the rabbits would seriously hurt him if he was to suddenly pounce on them. They have secure runs outside and when they are free range in the garden he stays in the house so he doesn't actually interact with them. And they only spend time in my room or the living room and while they are inside Hunter plays elsewhere and the door is shut

I also have six rats. Two old boys who are in my room at the moment while I keep a close eye and a group of four downstairs in the dining room. He also doesn't have access to the rats at all. When they are free ranging the door is shut which again is usually my bedroom or the living room

He doesn't show much interest in them at all really, he won't sit and watch them or anything. Like when I am feeding the rats he will come over and check out whats in the bowl I am putting in and not even look at the rats waiting at the cage door

Only two of the rats arrived here after him, so its nothing new that he has had to adjust too with new animals suddenly living here after he knew it was his home Those two rats that came after him just went straight into the cage with my other two boys so nothing has changed really since the day he got here regarding other pets

Living here there is me, my mum and my two brothers. He gets on fine with all of us. He isn't picky at all about who's lap he wants to sleep in or anything

I wouldn't say any of us have ever played rough with him even when he was a kitten. He has had all the usual toys like rattle balls/pop up tents/crinkly tunnels/toy mice/scratching post/fishing rod toys and so on but we have never had like play fights with either Smirnoff or Hunter. Any playing would have been with the fishing rod toys like just dragging them on the floor while he catches the end or rolling a ball along the floor

Yeah I know they are so good at telling you when to stop with the attention, only really mentioned that as an example of him being ok with us in that he allows us to rub his tummy and stuff. He is very outgoing, not nervous at all and really does love attention from us. Like I said the aggression is aimed at pretty much anything like a rug on the floor or the paper bin, only really us if we happen to walk past him at the wrong time

Thanks for the link I will take a read of that. I know showing fear is probably the worst thing we can do! We aren't actually showing it in our actions he is still getting the same amount of cuddles as he always has but it is there and im sure he has picked up on it x

[Beanie]

Could you give me a wider picture?

Forinstance, did you know or meet his mother?
Was she a cat belonging to someone you knew or was Hunter part of a feral birth and somebody simply re-homed the kittens?
Do you know how long it was before he was parted from his mother?

I see that he is about 15months. When did she get him? The tummy tickles and hugs are not unusual. Most cats will only take so much of that and then say 'No'. The important thing is to let them decide on their terms and not force the issue.

Does he get on with Smirnoff?
Are there any other animals in the house?
What other people live in the house and do they get on with him?
Ha anyone or does anyone play rough with him?

I'm simply trying to build a fuller picture to compliment your detailed post and see if I can give you some suggestions.

[Rosella moggy]

Well he is a very handsome boy and no mistake  .  I assume your mum plays with him e.g. fishing rod toys, anything that keeps him at a slight distance when playing?  Apart from steering you towards this link, which may provide some info of use, I can't help much. 

http://www.fabcats.org/behaviour/nervous_aggressive/info.html

Our Gandolf was an aggressive cat with both humans and other cats to start with. It took him many years to calm down with humans, in fact he became very loving after about 7 years (sorry) but was always pretty horrid to other puds. We did however get him when fully grown.  Vet thought it was coz he was neutered late (aged 2 or 3 when he came to us) but this obviously doesn't apply to Hunter. Showing fear will reinforce the behaviour I think.

[sillyrabbit]

Hi  I joined here a while ago but haven't posted very much but wanted to ask some advice if thats ok

My mum has a cat called Hunter and we are having problems with his aggression Its pretty much towards anything including us. He just attacks and spends ages attacking whatever he can, say if he has a treat he will play with it and rip it to pieces for at least half an hour before eating it. He wears himself out so much he looks exhausted sometimes and just flops and falls asleep. He attacks us quite a lot and we all have scars! The main problem it is causing is that we are a bit scared of walking past him or putting the food bowl down when he is waiting there

He is about a year and three months now, and he was neutered last April. He has honestly been like this since the day we got him and we have had him since he was eight weeks old but we assumed it was hormones and he would calm down once neutered, but he seems to just be getting more and more hyper. He is just a moggie from an unwanted litter, my sister has his two brothers and a friend has their other brother and they are nothing like him

The vet can't find anything medically wrong with him. We have spent the last year reading these cat books and following all the advice and sticking to it. He gets no reaction when he does attack but its just not worked

He trusts us completely and begs for cuddles and tummy rubs, will put up with it for a few minutes and then is off again. Its definitely not an issue like him being nervous or frightened of people. He loves to cuddle right up when he is calm and will sit and groom us. He has been treated in the exact same way as my cat Smirnoff. The other thing is he doesn't appear frightened of anything, he was happily sat in the garden playing with a toy while fireworks went off in the next garden. I had to bring him in the house and the whole evening with fireworks going off he only appeared freaked when he was in the same room as Smirnoff and saw how she was reacting. He is such a sweetheart, just for a very small part of the day!

We have tried Feliway to calm him but haven't noticed any difference

What I am mostly wondering is does this sound like behavior problems or just his personality? We love him to bits either way but I would really appreciate any advice if anyone has experience with aggressive cats?

And here he is so you can see who I am talking about!



Thank you x