Topic: Liver info needed please (Read 3797 times)

Debsymiller (Rufus' mum) · « **Reply #21 on:** November 28, 2008, 10:24:50 AM »

I can't be of help here but just wanted to send good vibes, purss and hugs

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #20 on:** November 27, 2008, 20:57:36 PM »

Well, fortunately he is putting a bit of weight on, there was some biscuits that had been brought up this morning, but hopefully that was Jeannie, as he rarely touches the dry food, and no diarrhea, so doing quite well to say how bad his results were.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #19 on:** November 25, 2008, 22:13:36 PM »

Thanks for that - interesting that the vet hasn't suggested steroids, but I suppose we would have to have more bloods done than the basic panel, and to be honest, I really do think he only has weeks left, and will be amazed if he sees Christmas.

fluffybunny · « **Reply #18 on:** November 25, 2008, 18:40:55 PM »

My lovely old man Sooty (now RIP) had liver disease - presumed to be primarily caused by a tumour - for the last 2.5 years of his life, he started off with losing weight, yellow poos and a palpable mass around his liver. He ended up having long term low dose steroids and when it started to get worse (he started vomiting regularly) this was then controlled with another drug of which I cannot remember the name. Part way through his treatment, when he was about 18.5 he had a dental - even though his bloods showed a bit of a problem there really wasn't any choice given the state of his teeth, and he came through just fine. He was pretty stable all along with the steroids, even though his bloods were showing increasing problems, and when he did deteriorate, he really did so within a matter of a couple of weeks right at the end and finally collapsed one morning.

He used to largely eat Royal Canin sensitive and that seemed to work well for him, but in the end it became too 'rich' and he really was literally eating supplemented chicken breast and white fish for the last few weeks.

Hope this little one is ok. xx

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2008, 10:03:49 AM »

Kidney levels are fine, his Urea was 12.0, the high end of the scale is 9.0, and Creatnine is 133, top of the scale is 177 so the vet is happy that it is just infection (Jeannie has similar Urea results), excessive weeing, drinking and weight loss are all classic liver issue symptons - and as he is a stray, we dont know how much he has lost or how quickly. What worries me is that these results were done before an anesthetic, so things could actually be worse, although it seems he bounced back from it well. He didn't eat as much last night, but I had got some new biscuits and he had eaten some of those, as well as some ham for his last tablet, so not too bothered, and his poo was normal today, so hopefully that was just a blip

Baggy · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2008, 21:40:05 PM »

I'd second that if he's eating well it's a good sign, the Proot had liver problems (which then caused anaemia) and the first sign that we really noticed was his loss of appetite. He also developed extremely yellow poo.

The vet gave him steroids and synulox, which he initially responded really well to, and his liver counts were improving but alas, the anemia progressed too quickly (as you may well remember).

I struggled to find much on line - Tanya's CRF site had the most comprehensive info I could find.

Wishing you both the best though

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2008, 14:43:18 PM »

If he's eating well, that has to be good as excessive nausea would stop that happening. I'd still give the Zentonil a try though if you can as it really is a good thing. It does sound like his kidneys aren't in great shape - weight loss, drinking and weeing excessively - but if it's the drugs that pushed his ALT to around 300, it could well pick up and recover in time. I really hope so.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2008, 13:24:23 PM »

Denes do Milk Thistle http://www.denes.com/health/herbal_supplements.php and this is a good online store for health supps, their milk thistle brand is a good brand and contains only milk thistle https://www.yourhealthfoodstore.co.uk/details.php/p246_bio_health_milk_thistle.html - I've ordered from them before, they seem to be very efficient and quick to send.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2008, 10:53:56 AM »

Thanks SM - I know Snowy had 3 different kinds of meds for her cholangiohepatitis, but stopped purring and ran away from me after 3 days, which i couldnt have as I live on my own. He has just finished a course of antibiotics after a dental, my vet would have used something different, but it was too late, he had nearly finished the course, and apparently the ab's they used are hard on the liver, as would the anaesthetic, so realistically, his liver values could now be worse, as could his kidneys. Vet hasn't suggested prescription food and now I have given Norman supermeat, he is ignoring the senior food!! I Can't see any yellowing in his eyes, but he wont' allow me to touch his mouth, we had a 10 min fight last night cos he had spat the tablet out of his ham 3 times, and despite being thin, he can put up a hell of a fight!! So realistically, his only symptoms are weight loss, but as he is a stray, we dont know what is normal for him, and weeing and drinking excessively. He has a very good appetite, so I might just feed him what he likes until he shows more symptoms - he was sick yesterday, so obviously that needs monitoring, but the diarrhea hopefully was ab related, and he did have a normal poo yesterday (he is on yoghurt at the moment, although I dont think he has touched it this morning)

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2008, 10:39:44 AM »

Hi Desley, I can only pass on what Swampy had for cholangiohepatitis, when his ALT was 1500 and went to 50 (in a year). Once discharged the treatment was a month (or more possibly) of synulox antibiotics, some steroids for a few weeks, Zentonil (vet UK has the best deal I think) tablets one a day (SAMe: works well on livers) taken on an empty tummy and Destolit. The latter is a gall bladder drug for humans but in many cat liver cases, including Swampy's, it worked wonderfully. He took it for 6 months or more with specialist approval. If your vet doesn't use it, I can research the dosage, I know it was a little bit, poss 1/4 tablet but would have to check.
His meals had to be very little and quite often and he ate the old L/d until they changed it to the new one (which Hills insist is very palatable but I know of no cat that will eat it, it's like rubber: if you do try it, just get 1 can to see). The next best diet I was told is the wet minced chicken k/d or any specialist kidney diet. He was not allowed anything fatty or too oily like tuna. I can recall we started on 12 meals a day, quite a few of which came up again. But coming up again straight away is a better sign than the dreaded 3 hours later.

I would avoid any more sedatives if you can as one of them is what caused the liver disease in the first place with Swampy. Swamps had a 10 minute unsedated scan when he was very weak in hospital but that would depend on what Norman would allow.
Can they not just treat symptomatically? Is he yellow at all around the eyes or in his mouth? Poor wee Norman, he must be feeling really sick. Hope some of that helps him.

Janeyk · « **Reply #11 on:** November 20, 2008, 10:19:06 AM »

Poor Norman

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #10 on:** November 20, 2008, 10:15:13 AM »

The problem we have with this cat is that he was picked up as a stray and taken to a vet we dont use, who did some lab tests, but they didn't cover some things that our in house test cover, and despite his ALT being 211 higher than the top of the scale, they went ahead with a dental but didn't do any further tests to determine why (they also mentioned kidney issues, yet his kidneys are fine). Doing any invasive tests (normally the most accurate for liver issues) isn't an option, he was lucky to survive the first anaesthetic, so I wont even risk a second one so soon.

I know cats can live quite a while with raised liver enzymes, Snowy had 10 months before hers developed into anything more, and even then, it was something that was potentially treatable, but she hated being medicated so i stopped them. I can't remember how high hers were though (I am getting the vet to check though). Like kidney issues, cats can cope until about 70% of the liver is failed before showing symptoms. Sadly Norman has other issues, the bulk of his bloods were abnormal, maybe the vet was thinking that as he is clearly underweight, and had a dodgy mouth, a lot would clear itself, but I personally dont think they will, and my vet is suspicious of something other than liver problems.

Janeyk · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2008, 09:34:40 AM »

Most Health shops will sell Milk Thistle

clarenmax · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2008, 09:09:59 AM »

I'm sure I spotted Milk Thistle in Holland Barratt recently?

bunglycat · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2008, 00:31:11 AM »

I am interested in the milk thistle too - any ideas what is the best to buy and where from ?
Its just i had Sophie ( 14 and a half) atthe vets today , she has had the runs twice in just over a week . she harldy goes out , has a heated bed and i haven''t changed her dietand none of the others have it .
The vet has given her an injection and some antibiotics, but said it could be the start of something else due to her age ( she has never been a very big or fat cat either), looking at could be : bowel cancer, liver problems maybe . I was just interested and it made me think it might be something to put her on and be beneficial to her when i read this thread -sorry for hijacking it !!!

Mark · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2008, 00:16:00 AM »

It seems there are quite a few kinds of liver disease and the treatments are diffeent. Did the vet mention anything specific?

http://www.holisticpethealth.co.uk/Cats/feline_liver_disease.htm

Tiggy's Mum · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2008, 00:05:52 AM »

Sorry Des, no experience with lover issues, just wanted to send some poitive vibes his way

Mark · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2008, 23:59:46 PM »

I know vetUK sell a couple of liver supplements with enzymes in but I don't have any knowledge about them.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2008, 23:19:03 PM »

What prognosis did the vet give?

I am led to believe, not from a vet although she was very very concerned about Frantas liver if he didnt eat, that liver failure unlike kidney failure happensd very quickly and by the time any symptoms are showing......jaundiced eyes, only days are left.

I certainly do not know how true this is but it did worry me and the vet kept checking Frantas eyes, he had blood tests but no problem from them has been told to me.

I hope that if it can be caught in time, you have been able to do so Desley

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2008, 22:09:39 PM »

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on November 19, 2008, 22:02:05 PM

Is there a liver equivalent to felinecrf.org?

The US forum has recommended Milk Thistle, although not sure where you would get that from in the UK. Is there any kind of food recommended like with CRF -

You can get milk thistle in any health food shop Des, and yes it is v. good for liver probs. Apparently extra taurine is good for liver too - also from any health food shop or online (NOW is a good brand for taurine), my holistic cat care book recommends high protein diet.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2008, 22:02:05 PM »

Is there a liver equivalent to felinecrf.org?

I will dig out the thread in a while, but my latest foster is partially blind and deaf and bloods were run before a dental, which showed poor results (but they did a dental anway). His ALT is through the roof, and his albumin and globulin are out too, plus some other things (only 9 out of 26 were fine!!). Apart from being incredibly thin and drinking and weeing lots, he doesn't really have many symptoms, although he was sick today and did have diarrhea (but he finished a course of Antirobe today, so not too bothered by that, esp as he was fine this morning after some natural yoghurt today). I managed to get a bit of info off the felinecrf site, and the vet has looked over the results, but I like to do some research, and it is nearly 4 years since Snowy went to the bridge.

The US forum has recommended Milk Thistle, although not sure where you would get that from in the UK. Is there any kind of food recommended like with CRF - vet has said not to bother with prescription food, as most cats dont like the liver diets (Snowy had to have kidney diets and only ate it when she really felt sick) - he does need to put some weight on, but dont want to overload his system, he is currently on a mix of supermeat (due to recent dental) and senior food (in case it does help like with kidney issues).

Author Topic: Liver info needed please (Read 3797 times)