Author Topic: Hand-reared Kitten - Growing, Feeding & Aggression  (Read 2625 times)

Offline shecat

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Re: Hand-reared Kitten - Growing, Feeding & Aggression
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2008, 13:14:35 PM »
My Ollie displayed all the symptoms of Saffie.

He was not hand reared he is (tilly's) my other cats kitten (he is now three years old). He showed signs of aggression from day one, the other kits would play he would either (even in those early days) try to fight as only babes can do or bully.

I kept him, cos I loved him. Then he stopped being aggressive, but really would not react with me, Tilly or our other cat loki and as you said we thought he was thick. Although he is and was always the first for food, best spot in the garden.

One day only a year ago a friend came to visit, she is not an animal person but is a psychiatric social worker.  She was intrigued by Ollie and watched him for a week while she was staying.   Then she came up with an interesting idea.  "I think that cats autistic".

If everything was in its place Ollie was happy, a leaf in the wrong place could set him off in a tantrum.

After a year and taking this into account (I can’t afford a vets bill to agree/disagree with this) but working on this principle.  A week ago he came to me for a head rub and liked it and yesterday for the first time I found him on the end of my bed sleeping with the others.(I cried)

Like Saffie, Ollie was born with cat flu and eye problems (hence being called Ollie, after the owls),  his mum being a stray she was a carrier, but the other three  kittens did not.

I dont know if this will help or confuse, but I have found that working on this principle and using methods that are used for autistic children (facts given by my mate and adapted for cat) Ollie is coming up in leaps and bounds.

Every thing should work out, you obviously know what you are doing.

x She
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Offline Millys Mum

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Re: Hand-reared Kitten - Growing, Feeding & Aggression
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2008, 17:36:46 PM »
When you say her breeder is it someone whos cat had a litter or someone who does it all the time? To let a kitten go at 380g is shocking  :(

Her weight now doesnt sound far off to me as kittens naturally vary in size, most of mine hit a kilo around 9 weeks of age, some before, normally boys.
Thats a healthy weight to vaccinate at.

Food, i would try mixing the milk into some felix kitten food, this is complete and formulated for growing kittens, and as shes disadvantaged it would benefit her more than adult feline fayre.
If whiskas milk is what her stomach is used to i wouldnt swap it now as it could upset her, shes lucky that the lactose in it doesnt affect her.
When introducing the felix food, mix it into the fish eg, 1/4 felix 3/4 fish, then 1/2 etc

If she decides to only eat dry food then james wellbeloved is a good choice, although i would say persevere with wet as its good for them to get the moisture.

To stop her biting you could try blowing in her face, they generally dont like that and will stop. You can also try distracting her with a toy on a rod so any attention to passing legs is diverted.

Her photos show a happy little kitten so well done on your hard work so far, and good luck for getting her behaviour sorted  ;D


Offline Pinkbear (Julie)

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Re: Hand-reared Kitten - Growing, Feeding & Aggression
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2008, 16:41:01 PM »
I'm surprise your vet didn't recommend a formula such as Cimicat to mix with kitten meat when you discovered she wasn't weaned. This is normally how it's done. I'd agree to be careful about cat milk. Some of them love it but others hate the stuff and this could be why she's turning her nose up. I'm also not sure about an underdeveloped digestive system being able to cope with adult cat milk.  :shify:

Poor baby has had an awful start in life.  :( :hug: :hug:

Offline LesleyW

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Re: Hand-reared Kitten - Growing, Feeding & Aggression
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2008, 14:33:15 PM »
Hi Samantha and welcome to Purrs.  I have experience of handreared kittens and I would say that the aggression that Safi is showing is down to her handrearing.  Kittens learn an awful lot from their mums in the 8 weeks they should be with them and one of the major things they learn is cat manners.

Mum would have taught her kittens when play was too rough, when she had had enough, etc etc so Safi has missed out on the vital information hence her behavour now.  Unfortunately, Kat has been an only cat all this time and, being older, just wants a quiet life now.

I have always been fortunate in that my kittens have always been quite mellow but I do know of others who have had terrible trouble with kittens being aggressive towards them after being handreared.

Unfortunately, although being able to guide you with why Safi is like she is, I am not much help in solving the problem.  I think the main thing is to be patient with her and not get angry as this will just add to her aggression.  If she is annoying Kat it may be an idea to call a time out and place her in her pen to cool down and also that would give Kat a breather as well.  I have also noted that when my rescue mums are telling their kittens off they often grab them just round the scruff lightly as if to say "stop" so this may be worth a try.
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Offline Tiggy's Mum

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Re: Hand-reared Kitten - Growing, Feeding & Aggression
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2008, 14:21:44 PM »
Hi &  :welcome: to Purrs

Lots of questions there, some of which such as weaning, ideal weight etc I'll leave to the more experienced rescue people!

With regards the aggression, it sounds more like she is very playful and doesn't know where the boundaries are as she never had a cat Mum to put her in line.  My two boys aren't hand reared but when they started to get over excited when playing with me as kittens I used to blow in their faces quite hard, this distracted them to the extent that they stopped the attack. I really liked this method as they didn't become frightened or resentful of me but instead realised that every time they went too far something unpleasant happened but they didn't associate the unpleasantness with me.  They're adults now and don't use their claws or teeth at all when fighting me, another thing I did was squeeze their paws so the claws retracted while saying firmly 'gentle'.  If we are having a playfight and they start to get carried away I just say gentle and they turn it down a level  :)

My childhood kittens were handreared, they were not aggressive and were super affectionate so I don't think aggression is normally associated with hand rears.  I think they say that hand reared kittens tend to latch onto people more and might lack 'social skills' due to not being taught by Mum.

I don't see a problem with cat milk myself, I used kitten milk which is available from Pets at Home rather than adult cat milk. It is actually classed as a food rather than a drink though.  My two became addicted to the milk so I had to gradually decrease it and now they only have it as a treat.  I add some water to their wet food to make sure they're drinking enough.

To teach her to respond to her name I think you'll have to find something she loves (with mine it was 'Milky flake ums' - a kitten treat available from Pets at Home).  I rattled the treat bag and called their names, they came rushing over and got a treat, I then hid somewhere and did the same so eventually they realised that when I called their names and they came something good happen.  They do respond to their names but like all cats have selective hearing and ignore it sometimes!

As for kittens never staying still being normal?  Yes! Completely normal, apart from when they collapse and fall into a deep sleep before waking up and tearing round again!

Have just seen their pics on that link, they're both gorgeous  :Luv2: I love that white splodge on Safi's back  :Luv2: 




Offline Mark

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Re: Hand-reared Kitten - Growing, Feeding & Aggression
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2008, 14:16:39 PM »
I know very little about weaning kittens but I would be surprised if Whiskas milk is any good. Even though it is lactose reduced, a lot of cats still can't tolerate it. A proper cat milk substitute like cimicat would be more suitable I would have thought? Most vets sell it and it's probably cheaper online. http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1579

I think things like Whiskas milk are fine to give adult cats as an occasional treat if they tolerate it. Two of mine get upset stomachs with it.

 Also, I'm not sure if it's a good idea giving kittens fish.

Another thing is that cats process milk as a food, not a liquid.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 14:22:41 PM by Mark »
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Offline clarenmax

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Re: Hand-reared Kitten - Growing, Feeding & Aggression
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2008, 13:58:11 PM »
Sorry I can't help on this one, have no experience or advice I'm afraid!

Just want to say Hi and  :welcome: to Purrs  ;D

Hopefully some peeps will be along shortly who can help you.

One of the first rulez of Purrs is photos, we likes photos on here  :)  Would love to see some of little Safi  :Luv:

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Offline Dawn F

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Re: Hand-reared Kitten - Growing, Feeding & Aggression
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2008, 13:55:45 PM »
there are a few people who handrear on here, someone with advice will post soon I'm sure, welcome by the way!

Offline GreenDarcy

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Hand-reared Kitten - Growing, Feeding & Aggression
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2008, 13:48:17 PM »
Hi,

We rehomed a B&W moggie kitten - Safi, 5 weeks ago when she was 6 weeks old. She had been hand-reared as her Mum had mastitis and had to have her nipples removed. So Safi only received 9 days of her mummy's milk and her breeder had to bottle feed her and her 6 other siblings.

Safi is the runt of the litter.

The breeder was trying to wean her onto Felix kitten food, but although she believed Safi was weaned when we took her home, it was obvious she couldn't eat properly - she sucked her food, hardly taking anything in.

So we started her on 6 feeds a day using Feline Fayre fish cat food and James Wellbeloved Complete Kitten Turkey & Rice all mushed together, and Whiskas Cat Milk (lactose reduced) by dropper.

She's now almost weaned and onto 4-5 feeds a day - moist fish (70% fish Feline Fayre) for the morning and night feeds and her James Wellbeloved dry food after she's eaten her wet food and for the rest of the day. She still has Whiskas cat milk 3 times a day - morning, tea and bedtime. She's drinking a bit of water, but not much, so she needs her milk. BUT I have to force feed her her milk - otherwise she would dehydrate: she has too many more important things to do than drink(!). Also, she's not so keen on eating her moist food - takes her an hour to eat 3/4 of her feed which are about 1/3 the size of my palm. Though she will eat her dry food almost instantly. BUT, she's not eating any more than she did when she was tiny. Is this OK?

We used to give her human-grade tuna in spring water, but the lady in the pet shop told us that there wasn't enough fat or protein in fresh tuna for Safi to grow, and that we should use a cat or kitten moist food. We have also been told by a Ragdoll breeder (friend of the familiy) that Safi has to have moist food and we can't just switch her to the dry food, even though she prefers it. Plus she said we were doing a bad thing by giving her Whiskas cat milk as it's bad for her tummy - but she has solid poos, no tummy ache, is not completely weaned yet and as she's still tiny, it's helping her to grow with all it's vitamins, minerals, proteins, fats and oils. Is the advice of the pet shop and breeder correct?

Safi came to us with cat flu and after a visit to the vet, a nasty antibiotic injection (she cried!), and a week's course of antibiotics and eye drops, and lots of intensive nursing from us, Safi thankfully pulled through. The rest of the litter have turned out to be fine - only Safi developed the flu.

It took a while for our older cat to accept Safi. Kat (11+ year old tortie & white spayed queen) has never seen another cat before and so she found this tiny little bundle a bit strange! At first she thought she was a toy, but now they get on well and play together nicely, although Safi can be rough and insatiable, constantly jumping on/pawing Kat's face, so Kat can get a bit fed up and has told her off quite a few times.

She has my previous dog's large crate as her den (Jack was 16 when he put to sleep at home in late May due to liver cancer and haemorrhage). She's got a large plastic dog bed which shields her from any draughts, which is lined with newspaper. Her little litter tray is in there, along with her bed, blankets, teddies, hammock and food/water bowls. She has to go into her den only when we are out, at night and when Kat has had enough of her playfulness.

I wormed her with Panacur paste at the start of the month, but she hasn't had her injections yet - the vet recommended not to as she's still too small.

She came to us weighing only 380g at 6 weeks, which I know is massively underweight. She has gradually put on weight, but has always been about 2 weeks behind in her development. She puts on approximately 20g a day and is now 1140g at 11 weeks old today. Is this weight OK for her age? Is this normal or underweight? The Ragdoll breeder say's she's too fat, but she is lean and today you can feel her spine and ribs easily, whilst on other days she is well-covered.

She seems to be very behind in her mental development and and I know it's awful to say, but I think she's a bit thick. She still hasn't learnt her name, doesn't know when no means no - especially when Kat tells her, is still weaning. She runs around the house seemingly non-stop, but as soon as you pick her up she falls straight asleep as she's so exhausted.

Also she can be VERY aggressive. She will swipe at your legs or feet when you walk past her or she runs at top speed to you and clings on. When being held she will swipe at your face, and sometimes she gets so frustrated usually because she wants to get at Kat or sometimes for no obvious reason at all, she will bite, scratch, hiss, growl, yelp and scream. She's not in pain because as soon as we put her down she runs off quite happily to attack Kat. She also play-attacks if we touch her tummy, but even though she is playing, she can bite and scratch quite hard, which is not on! I mean she's only little now, but it's going to be a big deal as she gets bigger.

We've tried telling her no firmly, yelping, hissing, putting her down, ignoring her, scruffing her, but nothing stops it. The scruffing (i.e. holding her scruff and holding her down still for a few seconds) helps a little, but then she forgets and is naughty again.

Is this aggression normal in a hand-reared kitten? Please someone tell me how I can stop it. I hate telling her off and I dont want to heed her development. If we're constantly telling her off will she develop a fear or grudge with people?

The thing is when she is being a good girl she is absolutlely adorable. She'll sleep on your chest, purr when you stroke her, play with you with her toys and loves having her photo taken.

She has come through so much and we're so thankful she didn't die on us, but the only thing is this aggression and her constant attack of Kat. Kat, being a gentle, regal old lady, wants to lick her and lay down and sleep with Safi, but Safi just jumps all over her, pawing, biting etc. She never stays still! Is this normal?

Sorry for the very long post! Any help would be very gratefully received!

Many thanks and kind regards,

Samantha :)

P.S. Here's a link to some piccies of Kat & Safi: http://littlegreendarcyaviary.blogspot.com/

 


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