Does anyone know a rescue able to TNR in midlands?

[Hippykitty]

I haven't tried Crammar. After emailing CP and having no response, I threw up my hands in despair. Other things also intervened needing lots of attention, like the Council demanding 100's of pounds of Council Tax which I don't owe. This has more or less been sorted now. Also, Fred and Vic have needed attention - organising their vacc's etc and deciding to keep them.

I've had lots of calls from young studenty sounding types trying to offload cats. I told them that I don't take in cats and recommended CP and WellCat. I suspect these are end-of-the-academic-year castoffs. This is one of the main causes of the growing feral population. If only they abandoned them neutered, if they MUST abandon them! 

[Jasmine]

How did you get on with Cramar HIppy?

[Ela]

According to Ela, I should do nothing,![/quote}

That is not what I am saying at all.

What I am says is it is very difficult to find homes, return is often impossible (round here anyway) and lack of manpower is one of our worst problems. I just have no idea what the answer is. What I do know if there were more responsible owners we would not be in the mess we are, sadly on here we are preaching mostly to the converted and not getting the message across to those who are helping to cause the problems. Many of the cats in and around cities are not true ferals but cats let down badly by society and to survive have turned to the feral ways.

Many years  a huge problem in Chesterfield at one time, fortunately most were in a churchyard  (perople fed them 365 days a year and rang us if any appeared below par) and could be returned, everyone was trapped. neutered and eventually returned. Leave just one and the problem does not go away. Gradually over the years they all died out. Now thankfully  people don't seem to dunmp there unwanted cats there now.

why not have a word with your local voluntary service council and see if they have any suggestions

What a good idea Angie. I am sure if you had the manpower local rescues would loan the traps and pay.

[Angiew]

Warwick university have a volunteer thing for their students. I've had students help with fundraising for us through this - perhaps the university up there has a similar thing and you could persuade some strapping students to help with trapping?
Some larger organisations also have a volunteer section, why not have a word with your local voluntary service council and see if they have any suggestions. The least they can do is email out to ask for volunteers.

[Hippykitty]

I'm confused!

According to Ela, I should do nothing, because, according to her, the people won't have them back and I won't find homes for them, which leaves the cats with nowhere to turn, and they can't all live with me!

Bye the way, I HAVE homed ferals. The kittens went easily; I could have home the twins ten times over, there were so many enquiries about them.  Of the adults, Winnie was lucky that the women who adopted the twins also fell in love with her. The homecheck upon them gave them five stars; they were ideal cat-people. They couldn't have children, so had cats instead. Their cats were spoiled stupid!
I took a couple of months before trying to home them. In this time I did what I could to socialise them. Fred has totally changed. When I first had him, I thought he'd have to be released because he was so vicious! He's a softy now.

If I drove and had several traps and a strong man, I could do some of this on my own, with the help of CP vouchers. I would trap them, take them straight to the vet, then release them when they had recovered from the op.

I can tell the difference between a feral and a domestic. I caught a domestic in the trap. This was obvious when I went over to the trap: instead of shying away and hissing, it put its nose up to greet me. I released it immediately.

I think I've exhausted what CP have to offer, so will try Crammar tomorrow, then give up. Ela, the cats will then be culled in six months or so by the local council who will do a mass trap and pts campaign. After the summer there will be even more of them and the issue will be evident to people who DON'T like cats. Someone will ring the council. That will solve the problem in a way we wouldn't have wanted.
Personally, I wish that CP would do a mass TNR while there's time to keep the numbers down. Clipped ears etc would be a sign to any exterminator that action has already been taken.

I'll try South B'ham CP tomorrow. Even if they do pts a few FIV cats, this may be better than them all dying. Personally, I think the FIV cats could be homed to indoors-only homes. Of course, I haven't your experience, Ela, just a knowledge of cats and one small rescue effort.

[Millys Mum]

I do think you would struggle homing an adult feral, the lot you took in last year took their time and they were youngsters. Most people arent even interested in working with a timid kitten let alone something as fiery as a 'matured' adult feral.
I personally wouldnt bother blood testing them, just neutering them all would be a mighty improvement. For every blood test you could neuter another 1 maybe even 2.

or ship in a few Purrs members for a holiday?

Can you imagine a coach of purrs ladies armed with sardines? The cats would have a fit on the spot 

I think Jasmines plan is the best one, CP provide the vouchers and you try to find man/woman power to do the donkey work.

[Jasmine]

I feel like giving up and leaving the other ferals to their fate.

Don't give up Hippy, you may be their only hope

I think you need to start an initiative like the lady who founded the Twinkletrust (which runs twice yearly neutering campaigns in Fuerteventura), but you would definitely need the support of the locals.  If somewhere like Cramar could offer the veterinary needs, funded by CP, that would be a great start.  Then, look at getting together a team of like-minded individuals from the local area... or ship in a few Purrs members for a holiday?   I guess traps/cages would need to be begged/borrowed & some funds raised for other treatment...

Does this sound feasible, or am I living in cloud-cuckoo land?

[Angiew]

HK, we all share the same frustrations as you!
we all do as much as we can (and sometimes a bit more) but are all hampered by time, money , people or space - or all of the above.

and just a caution, but not all cats that shy away from feeding are feral.

[Ela]

I do understand what you are saying, but in reality, round here anyway, people will say they will have them back but once we have trapped them the people suddenly change their minds. Of course if a cat were feral & FIV it would be irresponsible not to mention it especially as the cat would need an extra eye kept on it so any problem could be nipped in the bud even a slight sneeze to a FIV cat could be fatal if vet treatment were not offered immediately. I personally do not know anyone who would take on a FIV feral, although I appreciate some of the posters may.

There was masses of concern from the people who worked at the hairdressers, the girls in the chemists, and a guy who lives in the flat over the butchers.

Once again I know what you are saying, but will these people donate to ensure the little ones have proper regular meals.  Will they be responsible for ensuring the cats are treated for fleas/worms, injected and have vet checks to ensure all is well.To me it is not acceptable to return cats to somewhere that depends on students to feed in term time.

it's a number I know only too well. They're great at giving vouchers etc, but a choccy teapot when any hands on help is needed!

The trouble is that possibly they are also dealing with a number of situations and do not have the manpower to do any more. If more people like you decided to help then they would be able to do more. So many people say Oh! I would love to do that, but even if you ask them to help they help always find a reason not to.

I know we all want to save the world but sadly it is impossible.

[Hippykitty]

Ela, I have said further down the thread when you raised this point before, that because of the population of the area, most are willing to have them back on their property. This is a student let area, very inner-city, not a hoity suburb. The main 'carers' of the ferals are shopkeepers, who have them at the backs of the shops, and students, who feed them during term time. The few owner-occupiers (according to recent statistics, 95% of the housing is student lets) put out food during the summer, generally leaving bowls of munchies outside front doors.

Unfortunately, because these cats are no ones 'responsibility' they are breeding. The students admire the cute little kittens, but don't think of the future. Because they are fed, they look healthy. The way to distinquish them from domestic cats is that they run away from humans who aren't their regular carers.

Ela, there would be no problem with releasing the healthy cats back to their territory after neutering. The landlords never visit the properties, neither do the letting management agencies. I know this because I have student housing on both sides of me and it's impossible to get in touch with anyone in charge when I want to (over noise issues etc, the uni housing officer is better at sorting this out with the students).

The shopkeepers like them because they keep down the rodent population. There was masses of concern from the people who worked at the hairdressers, the girls in the chemists, and a guy who lives in the flat over the butchers, when I was doing last November's trapping. Unfortunately, because I had only one trap, the mother became trap-wise and couldn't be caught. She was heavily pregnant at the time. She 'disappeared', probably to have the kittens, before I could trap her. If I could have caught her early in the pregnancy, I would have had her aborted.

If anyone has constructive comments, I'd love to hear them.

Have just had a call from the CP branch I contacted from the link given by Fussy Furball. They were very pleasant, but don't cover this part of B'ham. They gave me the number of my area branch, unfortunately, it's a number I know only too well. They're great at giving vouchers etc, but a choccy teapot when any hands on help is needed!

[Ela]

but if a feral cat was found to be FIV+ it could be adopted rather than released. In my opinion,

It is a huge problem. Often when a feral is trapped whoever owns the land won't want them back and it would be irresponsible to just take them back without ensuring that someone would be responsible for their welfare.

[Hippykitty]

Jasmine, I will try Crammar. The problem is that I can't do all the trapping and taking to vets. It's much more than a one woman job. I'm not exagerating when I say that there are now hundreds of feral cats around here. All I could do would be to indicate where they hang out and do a little overnight fostering. I haven't got the traps or the space to do a more large scale job. The eight I caught last November took up all the room I had.

This really needs the work of a larger rescue organisation, an equivalent of Alley Cat Allies, who unfortunately pts FIV positive cats. They are a US organisation.

Angie, I even rang the head office who also told me they would pts a FIV positive cat. I was specifying feral cats; but if a feral cat was found to be FIV+ it could be adopted rather than released. In my opinion, few ferals can't be tamed given the time and patience. The wildest one I caught, Fred, is fast turning into a big softy. When I first trapped him, he tore shreds off me! When I took him to be neutered I was dripping blood into his cage from where he'd scratched me! He's nothing like that now.

I feel like giving up and leaving the other ferals to their fate. Every time I try to help them I'm told I'm doing it wrongly. Pretty soon the local council will cull them, I've just been trying to prevent this by a timely TNR programme. 

[Jasmine]

Hippy, I think I've mentioned this before & you never responded, but have you tried Cramar Cat Rescue to see if they could help?

They are only 6 miles away from Selly Oak and have their own veterinary practice on site, ideal I would have thought.
I'm sure CP HQ would also provide vouchers to cover the full neutering cost.

[Angiew]

Thanks for the links Sam.

Birmingham CP pts ALL cats who test FIV positive, as do the RSPCA, not just ferals. The CP branch I've spoken to is based in South Birmingham.

I worked at a cp shelter in birmingham and there were always a few FIV's up for rehoming. Was there a couple of months ago and they were a couple there.........

[Hippykitty]

As the cats I trapped were healthy, it's likely that these are recently established colonies and unlikely to have FIV. But I would feel uncomfortable dealing with an organisation willing to put them ts if they were positive. Adoption would be fine, but I know that it's hard to find a home for an untamed feral, and I wouldn't be able to spend the time (two months for a kitten, four or more for an adult) taming them....I haven't the room or resources...I'm not an official charity with money raising schemes etc (I don't know how charities raise cash). I can, however, keep overnight post op cats before they are released.

Ela, the impression I have of the local population, student and resident, is that they are happy to feed the cats (as a general rule) but not to take them in as pets....many of them have become unhandleable. Fred scratched me to pieces in the beginning; when I first had the ferals, I look like I self-harmed  !!  When I was trapping them last Nov, the shopkeepers and peeps who lived over the shops were really concerned about what would happen to the cats. There may be some instances where they will be unwanted, but it's either TNR from a cat-friendly organisation now, or a local council cull later.

I rang the main phone number of CP (given in their main site when I googled 'Cats Protection'). The same snotty attitude I've had before, like the guy was thinking, "you're a silly woman who needs telling how cats should be dealt with and doesn't know a thing about cats" 

Oh well, I hope Dawn can come up with something.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

When it comes to FIV, I think you have to overcome the emotional blow and take the long term view of the feral involved. Should a feral prove FIV+, who will monitor its health and medicate it should that be needed? Or do you just release it and allow it to live with this time bomb and die a painful death in 10 years time or next month?

Most ferals don't even live until they are 10 years old and it's usually something else that will kill them before the FIV so I don't agree.  If they are all neutered/spayed, the chances of it spreading are virtually zilch.  I have dealt with a few FIV's and I for one do not agree that they should be pts because someone who thinks they don't deserve to live says they should!!

I do hope its not me who you think says ferals with FIV don't deserve to live, Dawn? 

What they do deserve is to live in supported circumstances and assessed for their needs. Saying the risk of a neutered cat not passing on the disease is low I agree with, but I cannot guarentee they won't and this is why I can't bring myself to put future generations through that risk. I've seen far too many left to fend for themselves and suffer alone and we don't get to hear about them until they are nearly dead.  So no, we wouldn't return a cat with known FIV to the wild but in every case so far we have managed to find shelter for them somewhere. That may not be the case if we came across a group of 50 of them.  But that doesn't equate to saying they deserve to die, doesn't it?  Hope that clears up any missunderstanding. 

[Ela]

TNR

Am I right in assumng that is trap, neuter & return?

I think most if not all branches of Cats Protection would be happy to do that. Unfortunately it is the return bit that causes the problem, with us anywa as 99.999% of people will not have the cats back.

[Hippykitty]

Sam, I've just sent an email to the first link, not realising that it's a CP branch. Oh dear! I was a little critical of B'ham CP in the mail. Here's the full email I've sent, more or less:

Last November I trapped 8 feral cats living at the back of some shops in Raddlebarn Road. As it was winter and 5 of them were kittens, I tamed, sheltered, neutered and rehomed 6 of them (two have proved difficult to home, despite being lovely cats, now tame). Despite having a very limited income, I did this with my own resources and help from friends. WellCat provided the trap. The RSPCA sent an inspector round after someone 'complained' about the number of cats in the house: she was happy with the way I was keeping them and provided a play-tree etc. I received lots of help from experienced peeps on the "Purrs in our Hearts" forum.

However, the number of feral cats in  is now becoming overwhelming. It requires a dedicated TNR programme, which I am unable to perform. You were recommended by someone on Purrs. I have avoided contacting the local CP branch because of their pts policy regarding FIV cats, and I don't trust the RSPCA.

It is impossible to walk a few yards down my road without seeing half a dozen ferally cats - I can tell by their demeanour that they are not domestic. I think the problem has arisen due to students not neutering their cats, then abandoning them at the end of the academic year.

Do you have the resources to carry out TNR in this area? If so, I can direct you to the location of the colonies (with the help of local shop keepers and resident neighbours)?

Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to do this myself, although I would be happy to help with the trapping. I have returned the trap I used to Pauline at WellCat. If necessary, I could home a few overnight while they recover from the operation. But I'm looking after four cats at the moment, so this help would be limited to the overnight recovery from the GA.

Oh well, it's north Brum, I hope they won't be offended.....on the other hand, they should change their policy! 

DiddyDawn, just seen your new post. Thanks very much for the offer. I'm in Selly Oak, will PM you my phone number. My email address is with my profile details. 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

When it comes to FIV, I think you have to overcome the emotional blow and take the long term view of the feral involved. Should a feral prove FIV+, who will monitor its health and medicate it should that be needed? Or do you just release it and allow it to live with this time bomb and die a painful death in 10 years time or next month?

Most ferals don't even live until they are 10 years old and it's usually something else that will kill them before the FIV so I don't agree.  If they are all neutered/spayed, the chances of it spreading are virtually zilch.  I have dealt with a few FIV's and I for one do not agree that they should be pts because someone who thinks they don't deserve to live says they should!!

Hippy, if you want, I'll put a plea out for you.  I have a few contacts that do trapping so they may be able to help.  If you can let me know what part of Birmingham to give me an idea.

[Hippykitty]

Thanks for the links Sam.

Birmingham CP pts ALL cats who test FIV positive, as do the RSPCA, not just ferals. The CP branch I've spoken to is based in South Birmingham. I was given phone number after phone number until I managed to speak to the right person. I was lectured about Felv and FIV etc and their pts policy. It applies to all their cats. The RSPCA inspector told me that they do it because of lack of space, and not being able to ensure that people WILL keep the cats indoors; again, this applied to all cats.

I had quite a heated exchange of emails with CP concerning this when I was seeking help via their network of 'cat women' to find homes for the ones I'd trapped and tamed. They were very 'snotty' about it. In the end, I stopped seeking their help and went ahead regardless.

This area is now overrun by ferals. The ones I trapped last Nov have become healthy housecats. I try not to bother the peeps I homed them to too much, but send the occasional email. At the moment, Fred and Vic are chasing up and down the stairs and mewing for food: it's nearly feeding time at the zoo! I have always believed that the vast majority of ferals can be tamed, it takes a little more committment from theirs slaves though.

I would imagine that either the council or the RSPCA would carry out a cull if the population continues to grow at its current rate. I can't walk a few yards without seeing half a dozen or so ferals.

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

http://halesowen.cats.org.uk/index.asp?m=wwd ... these guys do TNR

another idea ... maybe the BVA could offer advice / assistance : http://www.bva.co.uk/profession/overseas/worldwide/charities_orgs.asp ... there are lots of links eg: SNIP INTERNATIONAL SNIP International is the only UK-based animal welfare organization specifically dedicated to promoting the neutering of stray and feral cats and dogs on a worldwide basis.

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

I agree with Ela.

When it comes to FIV, I think you have to overcome the emotional blow and take the long term view of the feral involved. Should a feral prove FIV+, who will monitor its health and medicate it should that be needed? Or do you just release it and allow it to live with this time bomb and die a painful death in 10 years time or next month? As much as we love all cats, this disease will continue to thrive unless we grit our teeth and do brave but heart-crushing things from time to time. And think about the next generation, and the next, and the next...   until I win the Lottery and build a feral FIV sanctuary big enough to hold a 10,000 cats and then it won't be a problem. 

[wharfevalley catsprotection]

I'm so sorry that we aren't closer to help as Leeds CP has a fantastic TNR team (well 3 people!) and we don't PTS FIV cats, but have no extra rescources at the moment as we're delaing with a new feral colony of 15 in a crappy area of Leeds 

Fingers crossed something can be found to help this lot, although I do appreciate Ela's point of not having room/rescources to help!

Unfortunately we'll never have enough money to mop up the problems caused by people 

[Angiew]

and I know that Birmingham CP have a pts policy for FIV pos cats.

I assume this is for ferals? as I know the hollywood shelter usually has FIVs up for  adoption. If none of the ones you trapped have FIV then it is likely that the others do not have - I'd get CP on board if I were you.

lse the situation will get out of hand and you WILL have a problem.

Rent-O-kill won't discriminate beween healthy and sick animals.

[Ela]

and I know that Birmingham CP have a pts policy for FIV pos cats.

I don't like it but to be honest with you what can they do? If there are large numbers where do they keep them until a home can be found? Keeping them long term means that many ' normal' cats will not be given a chance as all the pens would be blocked up for long periods. It is bad enough trying to find homes for FIV cats let alone FIV ferals. Rescues are in an impossible situation I know many days a week days I am being asked to bring in up to 30. it is a total nightmare, we take in anything when we have a space, but now we are more or less blocked up with very difficult to home cats, lots of teens to with bad heart murmurs and many with other problems that need medication for life, so obviously homing is very slow. Mind you yesterday we did squeeze a mum and 4 kittens that were found in a waste bin, and a very, very old cat with thyroid & kidney problems. We are even paying a cattery to keep cats for us and you know how expensive that is.

[Hippykitty]

The number of feral cats in my area of Birmingham is starting to reach overwhelming proportions. What is needed is an organisation able to carry out TNR on a fairly large scale basis. I don't trust the RSPCA and I know that Birmingham CP have a pts policy for FIV pos cats. The only other organisation I'm aware of is WellCat, but I don't think they do TNR, and Pauline, who runs it, is always busy caring for the 100+ cats in her rescue.

I've tried googling this and come up with useless results. Any ideas would be appreciated.

The reason I'm not doing this myself is that I'm a one-woman band, and haven't got the traps or resources.