Struvite crystals

[Fiona2]

Fiona - the dry C/D does say it can only be given for a maximum of 6 months, is the wet different?

Yes Desley it does say this but vet said they have to put that on the packaging to comply with european/legal guidelines but that it is fine for long term use. Still feel happier with feeding him the Royal Cannin S/O in addition to the C/D.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Dont use OXO cubes or stock cubes cos they have a very large amount od salt in them

[Desley (booktigger)]

Fiona - the dry C/D does say it can only be given for a maximum of 6 months, is the wet different?
Cystaid is a tablet, but one of the ones where the inside is powder, so it can be sprinkled onto food - so you could give them a small treat of something and put it in that - or just pop it down their throat, that's how Tom got his, cos Molly did like to nibble on his food on her way downstairs, so I coudn't guarantee he was getting it all.

[Fiona2]

Ginge has been on Hills feline C/D tins (wet food) for a few years now and he has been fine, vet said he will be on this for life. Have had no problems since only Ginge does get bored with the same food and tries to pinch my other cats food so I have started to get the Royal Cannin urinary S/O dry food also to mix in for variety. I give him approximately a fifth of a can of c/d and just a few of the dry Royal Cannin biscuits mixed in twice a day and he is much happier with that.
It is expensive and with the postage not much cheaper online although it does work out slightly cheaper and I'm thinking if bought online with other stuff and the postage cost spread, or bought in bulk should work out cheaper still.
I have four cats and as it is only Ginge on prescription diet it's a problem keeping them from eating each others food, I have found the only way is to feed them all a few feet apart and to stand over them like a school marm and make sure they keep to their own dishes then to pick up their dishes and discard any uneaten food when they have finished, they have gotten used to this now and know they are not allowed to push in and swap around although it doesn't stop them having a sneaky go when my back is turned    it's a bit time consuming standing waiting for them to finish especially when you are late for work but you just have to make it a part of the daily routine, it is easier when the kitchen is quiet and there are no distractions.
I think Ginge's condition was caused initially by dry food so it's a bit confusing when the vet prescribes dry food but the urinary prescription diets are specially formulated to prevent the crystals forming, still feel more comfortable feeding mainly wet food though and the water fountain and water mixed in are good ideas.

[berties mum]

Thanks Desley!  I've scoured the internet for the prescription food, but you're right, as soon as I find it cheaper, I realise the P&P is going to be about £13, which is mad!  What is Cystaid, is it a tablet?  I might ask my vet about it when we return on February 1.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Cats on mainly wet don't drink a lot of water - a good way of solving it is to add warm water to their food, so they are getting it that way. My vet doesn't believe in prescription food for urinary probs, she just recommends wet food only and the only thing she prescribes is Cystaid - worked well for my foster last year, and isn't that pricey. Prescription food online tends to be cheaper for the actual food, but p & p is high. You could also try cranberry juice in his food, but do avoid any fish flavours, or pure fish as the magnesium content is too high.

[berties mum]

He used to drink from the kitchen tap when he was on a diet including dry food, but doesn't seem too interested now that he's only on wet food.  A friend suggested mixing an Oxo cube into his water bowl and seeing if that interested him, but he just tipped up the bowl and then sat in the puddle looking confused

I'll try a water fountain though, thanks for the tip!

[Gillian Harvey]

Have you got a water fountain for Bertie? That might encourage him to drink more water, as a lot of cats like moving water. You could also add some water to his wet food too.

Yes, it does seem daft that pet food manufacturerers make dry prescription diets for cats with this problem, completely defeats the object! but as Amanda said those cats that will only eat dry might be difficult to suddenly change onto wet food - although it could be done gradually I guess.

[berties mum]

Luckily Bertie's not too picky - my other cat Bella eats like a horse but is very fussy, but seems to like the Royal Canin!  Yes, Bertie is doing fine thanks.  The vet's only concern the last time we visited was that the ph level in his bladder hadn't come down at all, two weeks after starting the special food.  It may be that he isn't drinking enough now that he's got no dry food in his diet.  But we're back on February 1 for another urine analysis, so hopefully things will have improved by then.  In the meantime he seems fine in himself, so fingers crossed he's going to be okay.

[Amanda (mad4moggies)]

Maybe they make a dry version for cats who will only ever eat dry for some reason. I guess although dry food isn`t a good idea for conditions like this the prescription one is probably a bit better than the normal one. I`m glad to hear Bertie`s doing well.

[berties mum]

Hi all,

Thanks ever so much for your replies, which are a big help.  In answer to Amanda, Bertie's bladder wasn't blocked - the first sign I saw of anything being wrong was when there was blood in his urine - fortunately he comes inside to use a litter tray so I noticed straight away and took him to our local emergency vet.  The vet was able to feel that Bert's bladder was empty, so no blockage, but I have been warned that this can happen and be fatal.  However, since swapping to the new diet he's passing urine completely normally and the crystals are apparently dissolving, so I think he's out of danger for now.

The vet has said no more dry food, even prescription food - I have to say this has confused me though, as if cats with urinary problems are not supposed to eat dry food, why is there a dry version of the pouches Bertie is eating?  Is it for a different type of urinary problem?  He was previously eating a mixture of wet and dry food, and doesn't seem to be missing the dry food too much, thank goodness.  In answer to the comments people have made about acidifiers, the vet also mentioned that if Bertie didn't like the prescription food, I could return him to a normal diet and give him acidifying tablets, which would be one week on and one week off.  I think I'd prefer to carry on with the diet though, as Bertie hates taking tablets and I can't crumble them into food with having two cats, as I can't be sure who's eaten what!

[Gillian Harvey]

Yes, there are acidifiers, there is one called Methigel, don't know if its prescription only, but it shouldnt be used if the cat is already on an acidifying diet, and one called Uroeze, I think both need veterinary approval, if not prescription, before use.

Oh, and yes youre right, about the tuna, too high in magnesium for a cat prone to urinary tract probs.

[Amanda (mad4moggies)]

As far as i know there isn`t a supplement as such but things like Cystaid and Cystease have been shown to help. These are not prescription and can be bought online.

[Millys Mum]

I was told tuna isnt good for cats with crystals as its high in magnesium!

I think my fosters results will comeback with a need for a prescription diet so im reading up on it now. If i find anything interesting i will post here.
As a young kitten with diarrhoea he was fed on a sensitivity diet (made with fish) and when better was changed to fish variety felix. I wonder if this helped screw him up.

Does anybody know if there is a supplement to add to normal food to acidify/alkalise the urine, abit like a phosphorous binder for crf cats?

[Gillian Harvey]

One of mine Ben, had this problem around 4 yrs ago now after eating dry food for years, he had a blockage -  and he was put on the prescription diet for a time. Afte that I put all my cats onto wet food only and then eventually a raw diet, which they've been on ever since - and Ben has never had a problem since.

One thing that can cause the urine to be too alkaline is the grains/cereals in cat foods (including prescription ones), so you could try a food that doesnt contain any of those, (and ideally, a wet food, not dry) Natures Menu pouch is one that I know of, but I think there are others.

[Amanda (mad4moggies)]

Hi there,

I am a vet nurse and unfortunately have a lot of experience with cats that have the same thing as Bertie. He really does need to be on this food ideally as it contains everything he needs to maintain the correct pH in his urine.

I`m not sure whether you are feeding Bertie the sachets or the dry version but you can purchase it online and it is actually a bit cheaper. Here is one link i have found http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=801 . The bigger the bag of dry food you get the cheaper it tends to be overall. Did Bertie`s bladder become blocked or was there another reason that made the vet investigate this? I wish him all the best.

[berties mum]

Hi all!

Was wondering if anyone else has experience of a cat diagnosed with feline urological syndrome/ struvite crystals.  My two-year-old neutered male Bertie was diagnosed with this just before Christmas.  The vet put him on a prescription diet - Royal Cannin Urinary S/O pouches - and says that although the crystals seem to be dissolved, the alkaline level in Bertie's bladder is still too high and so he is likely to need to remain on the diet for life.

It's already becoming a bit of a pain getting hold of the food, as the vet never seems to have it in stock, and it's also expensive as I have two cats, who will only eat together, and so they're both eating the prescription diet.  Does anyone know of anything more easily available that would have the same effect?  Several friends have suggested trying Bertie on something other than cat food, such as tuna, as the problem seems to have been with the magnesium and ash in the food he ate before (Felix or Whiskas), and although this seems to make sense, I'm a bit loathe to mess around with his food in case it makes him ill.

Any suggestions gratefully received!