Well...Zeratuls now got food intolerances!

[Desley (booktigger)]

Glad to hear he is doing OK on them

[koscha (Ruth M)]

Well he's now on the new biccies and hasn't had a repeat so far! 
He'll still get the bland diet for a few more days yet as it's best to take it slow, then i'll put him back on the Felix and take it from there...

PAH took the cuisine biccies back without too much complaint. The guy behind the counter said 'anything wrong with them' as if squaring up to be awkward, but I declared loudly that i'd just found out my cat has a wheat intolerance- he shut up then 

The bonus is RW isn't such a naughty puss now he's got biccies back 

[Desley (booktigger)]

They were on offer two weeks ago (or it might be three, I lose track of time) - 2 x 2kg bags for £12, or 2 x 4kg bags for £20. Do take your bag back though, I bought 2 4kg bags in Oct when it was BOGOF, and the cats didn't like them, they sat on the worktop for months while I worked out what to do with them (couldnt give them to the rescue, as I have the senior cats), but Helen mentioned their 100% money back guarantee - they gave me £12.99 per bag despite the fact it only cost me £13.99 for the two, they were the old packaging, and one was open and partly used!! I asked for it to be offset against what I was buyig that day, rather than my money back, as it was only going to be spent there, and they were fine with it. I would have tried their lamb flavour, but my vet did me a good deal on JWB lamb.

[Tiggy's Mum]

Good luck with Zeratul, I've just discovered PAH's new website too    it does say online that the PAH complete diet is designed for: Wheat Allergy, Sensitive Skin, Sensitive Stomach so fingers crossed he'll take to it OK.

They don't actually do their own products justice though.  The chicken (main flavour obviously chicken!) is listed as 40% main flavour ie fresh chicken wheras other flavours like the salmon only list the 'main flavour' % ie salmon is 11.5%.  It doesn't mention, as it does on the packet, about the 11.5% fresh chicken that's in it aswell.

[koscha (Ruth M)]

Decision made...it's the PAH premium biccies for the guys! The new website is good, got full info as well as a nutrition adviser and compare tool.
Thanks for your help Desley, much appreciated 

[koscha (Ruth M)]

Ahhh... thats what they're eating ATM-the PAH cuisine biscuits.....Apparently they've got an offer on the JWB, might see if they've got an offer on the PAH premium biccies as i've seen other peeps recommend them (got cranberry for helping with urinary tract health etc.), still got an unopened bag of the cuisine biccies (only problem is they where bought as part of a 3 for 2 offer), may try my luck on a return anyway...they might take it back as i'm gonna spend more than return!
I like the idea of no cereal fillers and swap for a rice based biccie. Z's kept his whitefish and rice down, and seems a lot more comfortable on a diet with a lack of whiskas and cereal (though RW's playing up due to lack of biccies ATM!).
Am currently on the new PAH site comparing biccies!!

[Desley (booktigger)]

JWB isn't particularly high fibre unfortunately, so I have to add Lactulose to Molly's wet until I Can find something to replace the Perfect Fit. I haven't got round to getting anything like Orijen yet. Think RC was higher fibre, but I dont like their ingredients. PAH's biscuits (not their cuisine biscuits) do have similar ingredients to JWB but slightly cheaper - and they do a 100% money back guarantee if htey dont like it.

[koscha (Ruth M)]

Ok, i'll give that a try, cheers hun! 
All the guys have wet food twice a day and biscuits on demand. I think i'll stop buying the Whiskas though, as RW won't touch it with a ten foot bargepole anyway, so it's a bit of a waste of money IMO. I was thinking of buying a better class of biscuits though and was looking at Orijen, JWB, and the Hills and Royal  Canin standard mixes (this where the fibre element will come from).
Have to say the Orijen stuff is really intriging............. 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Yep - I dont know why though. PErsonally because of the changing in foods in the past two weeks, I Would put him on bland food for a day or two, then back on normal food and gradually swap over, I wouldnt worry about food intolerances yet. High fibre wet foods are hard to come by, molly needs it due to constipation issues, but they have stopped the one she had, and the only one over 1% fibre is Asda Tiger Senior - but it only comes in one flavour and in gravy.

[koscha (Ruth M)]

Ahhhhh.... I didnt know that about Whiskas!!  What is it that's considered the demon ingredient???
The thing is that in the past 2 weeks he's tried 3 new foods-the Whiskas, Beef (my OH got a talking to for the amount he gave him!) and Milk (just a little from the bottom of my cereal bowl). The Hill's website lists the 2nd two as the most common allergens 
I've yet to have a bad reaction to fish from him, he's had salmon and whitefish from the first week he was here with no problem.
He's got whitefish and rice tomorrow, if that comes up then he'll just be on chicken/turkey and rice/potato. i'm going to put him on this diet for 2 weeks, at least then if it is the Whiskas it'll be out of his system completely 
I've been looking at these sensitive stomach and low allergen foods and i'm confused....some have tuna in them, the venison one will probably go down like a lead balloon, and I need to find a wet food as he'll NOT go without it.... . It'll also need a reasonable amount
of fibre as he's prone to hairballs........Oh and the other cats will need to be able to eat the biscuits as well !
Recommendations PLEASE!     

[Desley (booktigger)]

White fish can be used as a bland food. Think for food allergy tests, you need to try something for a minimum of 2 weeks, and it is best to try with things they wouldnt normally eat (hence Hills diet being venison). Fish can be a big allergen though, and Whiskas is more prone to causing tummy upsets than Felix, so it might not be a food intolerance, it might just be Whiskas.

[Maddiesmum]

Don't know about where to get samples but you could try giving the companies a ring.

[Sheli_80]

Poor Z, hope you get to the bottom of it soon. I know how hard trying to strave a cat can be. Even though henry hadn't eaten for 2 days when I took his food away I was up all night listening to his crying.

And of course  to mean vets.

[koscha (Ruth M)]

Just found this nice succinct website that doesn't try to scare or preach- Just nice plain english (how refreshing!  ):
http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/elimination_diet.htm
Does anyone know there I can get small sample sizes of the Royal Canin and Hills products?

[Maddiesmum]

  to that nasty vet woman

[koscha (Ruth M)]

Cheers for that my dear...
He seems to be perfectly fine with the Felix, this problem started occuring when I bought them the Whiskas pouches. But i'd like as you say to be sure it's not an intolerance to a certain type of food (for example i know a cat that can't have chicken- it's such a serious allergy with him that he had to have part of his bowel removed because of severe swelling and necrosis  ).
I've already had a look at prices for Hill's and will certainly try it if it does show up that he's not just intolerant to a certain brand of food. My problem like you say is he can be picky and I think venison will be refused..... .It's a stong smell and he turns his nose up at duck  !
Is there anything else apart from chicken and turkey and boiled rice that I can give him at this early stage? Would whitefish be suitable?
I was thinking of putting him on the bland diet for 4 days, is that long enough for his system to calm down?or should I make it a week?
So many questions 

[swampmaxmum]

Hi, that's a vet you need to avoid!  to her.  Tuna's actually quite rich, probably too rich. Can you try something like the sensitivity pouches that Royal Canin do or hills i/d as they are designed for problem tums?  Hills do an 'allergy' food but it's made with venison and not all cats like it (d/d I think: have lost track). You can also get some paste stuff for him called Diarsanyl which settles the tum.
I think you're right - start with bland foods then reintroduce small amounts of 'normal' foods so that you can tell which food he's intolerant to. If you try reintroducing more than one at once, you'll not know which one is upsetting him (unless they all do).
Before my current vet, I had a woman vet here in London who was a total witch (although probably quite competent). When I moved, I found out she'd written on the notes that I was too mean to pay for full senior blood tests! No point getting all steamed up with hate at them, just find another vet I'd say.  Hope you can sort out Z's tum asap.

[koscha (Ruth M)]

Just got back from the vets with Z again! (10 days after his first trip.....  ).
He's been throwing up over the past couple of days so thought I would have him checked out just in case. I put him back on the felix good as it looks yesterday and there was no sickness, so it looks as if he's intolerant to the whiskas pouches! Have been told to starve him for 24 hours (i'm already getting the 'i'm wasting away' mummy looks) and then feed him bland foods the next day, so better get out the chicken to defrost! 
I suspect there's also a stress component to it as well. He's middle of the pecking order in the house. Keli tends not to bother him unless he gets too close..... but RW can get a little excitable in his play attacks! Poor Z! So am looking at giving him 'escape' places.
Piece of good news though, can stop the antibiotic drops in his eyes. Just need to keep going with the artificial tears.
Not impressed with the vet I saw today though...dragged him out of the carrier by the scruff of the neck as if he was going to sink his teeth in, She automatically assumed i'd brought him in for his second round of shots/ his eye and then spoke to me as if I was scum (curt and dismissive) who had just wasted her time for caring about my cats health! 
GRRRRR.... oh well never mind at least he's all clear for a really serious health problem. Does anyone have any ideas on how to conduct an elimination diet to test for food allergies etc? Got a sneaking suspicion that the eye/ tummy problems are allergy related.......
As I understand it, it's bland food, then gradual re-introductions of food types. I just need an idea of time scales really. Is tuna ok as a bland food?
Any help greatly appreciated as always!