Lucas has got tartar at just one year old - do I still switch insurers?

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

If you pay monthly you can cancel M&S at any time, you just ring em up and say I want x policy to stop on x date.

They dont even ask why now cos they blooming know!

If they did ask you just say you are too expensive and the terms of your insurance are no good.

Once having dealt with M&S, cancel the direct debit at your bank from the appropriate date and do it straightaway so you dont forget .

This is a precaution incase M&S dont cancel the insurance. Make sure you keep the date and time of the call to M&S cos they record all calls and in the event of any problem , they can find the recording 

[Tiggy's Mum]

They ignored chicken wings BC so will give the toothbrush a go.  I think my mind was getting carried away thinking it was the start of something serious like severe gingivitus or stomatis.  I've done some googling and tartar can be expected on the back molars of a 2 year old - he's 1 yr 2 months so not a million miles away from 2.  I guess if the vet thought it was the start of something serious he would have mentioned it so I'm going to stop being a worrier and get over it    I don't know what's happened to me, I never used to worry about anything but now the smallest thing gets turned into something major in my paranoid little head!

[blackcat]

personally I would use raw chicken wings before I started mucking about trying to clean my cat's teeth. Better to apply nature's toothbrush than a plastic one that can cause complications like te ones Swampmaxmum describes ...

[swampmaxmum]

I used Pet Dent and am convinced that it was it that caused the salivary gland 'lump' scare as the vet said his mouth was totally inflamed. I may be wrong but do blame the tooth gel for that as it coincided and got better when i stopped.
let me get this right though - Lucas will let you brush his teeth?! 

[Tiggy's Mum]

Ah, yes but then I'd have two insurance policies for the whole year as M&S automatically renew unless you tell them otherwise!  The vet nurse didn't mean calici caused the tartar but rather that the cat in question needed dental treatment due to having the calici virus rather than just bad husbandry.

I'm going to get him a toothbrush and try brushing his teeth, I had a look for myself earlier and he just let me lift his lips up without a fuss.  I then went to look at Riley's for comparison and he was wriggling around trying to escape so I think I'll have more chance of Lu sitting still for it than Riley!

[Millys Mum]

Wait a few more days and the decision is made!! Tartar at one isnt going to be why his teeth need removing when hes older.

Calici virus doesnt cause plaque/tartar, its a natural process.

[Tiggy's Mum]

I rang the vets and he has recorded 'tartar+' on his notes.  My way of thinking is that tartar is a natural occurence and as such not an existing condition.  If he ever required treatment due to excess tartar then, in my world, that's when it should be classed as a condition.  However we all know insurance companies exist in a different world to us!

I spoke to the receptionist at my local branch, she said that in the past even companies that do cover dental and gum disease have tried to wriggle out of paying for dentals on the basis that a build up of plaque is not good husbandry.  If the plaque build up was from calici virus then they would pay up.

I'm really not sure what to do now, I'm rubbish at making decisions! 

[Millys Mum]

Milly had smelly breath so i checked her mouth and she had the starts of gingivitis. I took her for a check up and the vet was surprised she actually asked me what made me check  i thought checking your pets vital bits was what pet owners did 
She had a scale and polish as treatment and M&S covered it all. They found a tooth to remove as well.

I think if your vet advises gingivitis needs dealing with they take their word.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I wouldn't give up on the chicken wings just because they show no interest in them at the moment.  Mosi doesn't either, and refused to attempt to eat any pieces of meat that aren't tiny for a long time.  But I've persisted and he will now eat pieces of raw chicken that are big enough to need chewing.  I don't know if I'll ever get him onto bones, but he's slowly getting the idea! 

I always think that phrase about "resulting from illness or injury" is deliberately vague and could easily be used to get out of paying for dentals.  Injury is straight forward enough but illness less so.  I assume they'd pay if your cat had an illness that also affected the teeth as a secondary thing, but most cats over a few years of age have some gingivitis so I do wonder if they'd pay out then or how bad the gingivitis would have to be.  I would hope they would, but what if the vet says there is plaque on teeth and a dental would be beneficial to remove it?  I suspect they'd say that doesn't count.

[Millys Mum]

Some vets recommend preventative scale and polish on a yearly basis  then your cat dies early from all the GAs. Thats what they would cover.

I emailed petplan as 4 of mine had diarrhoea last summer from a bug, they had antibiotics and have been ok since.
However these exclusions may be re-viewable if your pet has been clear of
the condition for an agreed period. For this we will need to talk to our
underwriting department as they will have some underwriting questions they
would like to ask

Seems like i shall swap them, proving that any future diarrhoea is from the same bug would be hard for them.

Have you decided on what to do?

On the chicken wing ignoring, have you tried introducing them to raw in small pieces? I started mine on tiny bits of raw chicken breast and then increased the size. 4 out of 6 happily munch bones now, 2 are still on chunks  i think they are messing with me 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

If he gets gingervitus AXA will cover it cos that is illness, what they dont cover like M&S and also Sainsurys, is cosmetic treatment .

So if someone took their cat for a clean every year , they would not cover that.

However if treatment was needed and part of that was a clean , then that should be fine

[Den]

Mig had a dental and he wasn't ill or injured .. he just needed his teeth trimming. It could also be some animals may have tartar combined with  breath so the owner may want a dental to rid the  breath.

[Tiggy's Mum]

On page 18 of Axa policy document it lists what they will not pay and, at point 5, excludes “costs resulting from dentistry that is not related to an illness or injury”. As far as I'm concerned that means cover just as good as M&S as Gill said.

That's crazy, why else would a dental be needed apart from illness or injury?    I did ask if it counted as pre-existing and he said it would but that he doubted the insurance company would cover dental/gum disease in any case so it would make no difference to me switching. My only dilemna is that the current insurers do!

I think I'm still going to cancel M&S, if he doesn't need any treatment now then it can't be that bad.  I just worry that he'll develop bad gingivitis and need expensive ongoing treatment and then I'll kick myself.  I suppose the flipside is that M&S could (and probably will) change their T&C's at the next renewal anyway!

[Rosella moggy]

On page 18 of Axa policy document it lists what they will not pay and, at point 5, excludes “costs resulting from dentistry that is not related to an illness or injury”. As far as I'm concerned that means cover just as good as M&S as Gill said.

Only your vet can say whether he would consider the tartar would amount to a pre existing condition which would exclude cover under another section of policy. Your vet may not even have bothered noting it on his records. Helen I would speak to your vet as you wouldn't want to find out if/when Lucas needs a dental.  Does that sound right?

Have to agree with Den that I'd switch anyway due to cost and cover.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Seeeeeeeeeeeee I not that sneakie 

[Den]

Oooops sorry I'd switch as the new M&S policy is so stupid. If there was something else that went wrong with either of them I'd be worried that Marks would say something stupid and not cover it whereas Axa would.

Plus since your vet hasn't done any work on his teeth and feels no need to I would say there aren't any clinical signs that a dental is needed 

[Tiggy's Mum]

That's really interesting, Riley is a regular chewer of just about anything that's near his face - maybe that's why he doesn't have a build up? I'll get a toothbrush for Lu and try it out, using plaque off will hopefully soften it so my brushing will do the trick.

You didn't say whether you would stick or twist in my shoes?

[Den]

Den, they've been on plaque off since they were about 6 months old but didn't know you had to brush the teeth with it - I thought you just had to sprinkle it on food?

Spoke to them at crufts in March. The Plaque off changes the ph or something of Saliva which then softens the plaque/tartar so it can easily be removed by brushing or chewing. If you brush regularly (or they chew regularly) the plaque shouldn't be able to form.  They were even giving away free toothbrushes with every purchase.

[Tiggy's Mum]

Den, they've been on plaque off since they were about 6 months old but didn't know you had to brush the teeth with it - I thought you just had to sprinkle it on food?  Tried logic gel before that and neither of them like it.

I dont think your vet is gonna tell them that in a couple of years time 

  They don't call you sneakiefeline for nothing!

[Den]

Have you tried him on plaque off (you do need to brush the teeth for this to work though) and logic gel?

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I dont think your vet is gonna tell them that in a couple of years time 

[Tiggy's Mum]

Look at your AXA policy and you will see that they cover them too

Axa wouldn't cover it as they exclude 'conditions which show clinical signs within the first 14 days of the start of cover'

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Look at your AXA policy and you will see that they cover them too

[Tiggy's Mum]

Thanks MM, I did tell the vet I was switching insurers but he said that most ins companies don't cover teeth anyway so there would be no problem with switching.  I was fine with that until I got home and read that M&S do cover dentals! 

I've tried them on chicken wings but they both just looked at me like I was crazy    I might try brushing his teeth, Riley is more malleable ie you can hold him upside down on his back, throw him around (in a playful way of course) but although Lucas is a cuddle monster he isn't overly keen on being picked up, he does stay fairly still at claw clipping / frontline times though.

[Millys Mum]

Petplan small print also says they cover dental treatment aslong as the cat had a dental check within the last 12 months. If he doesnt need treating now i would swap.
Im off to petplan shortly, will be doing the same kind of swap over you are with the overlap 

I would also give him a chooky wing to chew on 

[Tiggy's Mum]

The boys went for their annual vaccinations today, Lucas has quite bad tartar and slighty reddened gums even though he's only one year old    The vet said nothing needs doing now but that he will need something doing at some point and that we should just review it at each yearly check.

Now I'm in two minds whether to switch insurance, the Axa policy began 1st April and the M&S expires 16th April so I could still renew M&S and cancel Axa.  In the M&S policy documents it says it will not pay for 'any costs to treat teeth and gum disorders if your pet does not have regular dental checks'.  I just rang them and they said that 'regular' is at least once a year and that the check up alongside vaccinations counts as a dental check.

I'm so indecisive, I really don't want him to stay with M&S but would it be foolish of me to cancel if he is still covered by them?  I don't mind paying out for dentals on a one-off basis but am just worried that he'll need regular treatment for it.