Overgrooming

[madkittyrescue]

Hi Kathy,

Sounds like you've got plenty of options there to mull over and I would definately take the advice of your vet.   Is there any skin irritation where Fudge is overgrooming?  have you changed your litter? detergents, etc in the house?  These are things to consider as well.

I have read through this post and it seems like your wee one has fairly been through the mill.  As the other say it could well be stress related and I would recommend the rescue remedy / feliway options for that.  They seem to work in most cases.

You don't say if you have specifically asked your vet about the overgrooming?   May be worth doing so.  If there is a minor skin irritation in that area then perhaps they can provide you with a cream to apply over the next couple of weeks to see if it helps.

Failing that if it is just become 'habit' perhaps worth considering a bitter spray??  to put Fudge off licking at the area by giving him a horrid taste there instead! 

Either way I hope you manage to get on top of it.  Keep us posted on how you get on.

[Millys Mum]

Fudge sounds like my Taz, hes a very anxious cat (iv had him since birth so nothing bad has ever happened to him) and doesnt put weight on at all, hes 2 in march and is just starting to fill out a little, its lucky he has longhair or we would get reported for owning a bag of bones!
Taz doesnt overgroom, he wees blood instead 

I use feliway and plenty of catnip & valerian products and just try to keep things as static as possible but he is still flighty.
Im dreading having the kitchen done!
Taz gets extra secret treats but not at a time hes being skitty or it rewards his silly behaviour.

Vetuk sell feliway much cheaper than a vet and also valerian compound and catac weed sacks which are filled with yummy catnip 

[swampmaxmum]

How bad's the overgrooming? If tufts or chunks are coming out (sounds like it?) a treatment my Swamp was given once was a short course of cortisone. It worked. They get into the habit of doing it so even when they are less stressed, it continues.  HTH.

[puddypaws]

I boght the Felliway diffuser when Ollie was missing Portia and it has seemed to help - I got it from VetsUK.

[ccmacey]

My Macey overgrooms her forearms and pulls hair out making it look bald, its usually if she has had fleas. She carrys on doing it and the vet said it could be physiological. SP

[clarenmax]

Feliway is either a spray or a plug in, it containes pheromones I think which is supposed to restore order again if there is stress.  You can either buy it from the vets, or its probably cheaper on Vets UK.

Rescue Remedy can be purchased in Boots, Superdrug etc, its a natural product which can be put in their water, or a drop rubbed on the outside of their ears. 

Sorry I don't know any more than that, other than the Feliway can take a little while to work.  Hopefully other peeps will be able to elaborate on this a bit!

[carole1b]

thanks what are thease treatments and where would I get them from please ?

[clarenmax]

Hiya hun, I'm guessing she is missing Tabby, and its causing a bit of stress. 

I don't know too much about this if I'm honest, and my main suggestion would be Feliway and/or Rescue Remedy 

[carole1b]

Hi all My Tabby has gone over the bridge i have now noticed my other cat dennis is over grooming she has over grooked before but recently its got worse she was at it for 2 hours this morning. I got up at 5.30 am as she was miowing loudly she never hardly miows. I am sure its becuse she is missing Tabby she keeps looking for him. They did not seem close but she knows something is wrong. We have only been in our new flat a week as well so i think this has stressed her. I took her out on the lead yesterday and she seemed fine. Hvae you any advice on hoe to make her feel better and to stop licking and chewing all the time. I dont think she has a skin complaint it looks ok. She also dribbles when shes happy but she has don this a long time

[Nick (Peanut & Boo)]

A whole rotisserie ?!    fudge must be related to Boo 

Its funny but Peanut (see av) is the perfect model cat . He actually regulates his intake exactly as it says on the catfood can  he will only eat during the wee small hours until 8am when he sleeps through to 12pm at night when he goes out on his rounds. You can set your watch by his routine.
Whereas Boo is a vets worse nightmare . She also has an eating regime .....24/7 lol    The only time she isn't eating or looking for food is when she has fallen asleep for a few minutes. groan.

I would bet my weeks salary that I could leave a cooked chicken on the worktop and Peanut would not touch it.
he's such a gentleman . I have just eaten a gorgeous piece of poached salmon with him asleep next to me on the kitchn table. All he did was raise one eyelid sniff once and go back to sleep. he knows that I'll save a bit for him . Its demeaning to beg. Boo on the otherhand is sitting on the edge of my plate intent on doing an `Arthur' by quickly hooking a piece off my plate with a single claw before I can retrieve it with my fork. 

cat foods especially dry foods have a lot of additives these days to make them a so called complete food. I wonder if it might be worth just feeding her on chicken fish and rice only natural unadulterated foods and see if that makes any difference ?  Fudge licks her chops in anticipation ...  Pick me Pick me 

heres Boo (aka lardass) between meals

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[Kathy]

Hi Nick,

for the reply.

BooBoo does sound like Fudge...I often wish you could just sit 'em down and have a right good chat with 'em, to find out just exactly what's going through their minds!

Were are convinced Fudge actually understands some human speak, most especially the word 'Chicken', it doesn't matter how quietly you say it, she just flies into the kitchen at the mention of it!

We bought a rotisserie chicken from Asda the other day, put it down on the worktop (still in the paper bag they put it in, inside a plastic bag, inside a carrier bag)...who do you think opened it for us?  Yep, she'd eaten loads by the time we realised!

She doesn't put any weight on though, which is really odd, she eats twice the amount that Mia eats and she's a real jellybelly.

We're definitely going to get her thyroid checked out after Christmas.

She seems to get on fine with the other cats, if a bit detached, she seems to be more of a people cat than a cat cat, if you know what I mean.  They never fight, Max sometimes tries to play with her, but Fudge tells him where to get off in no uncertain terms, Max is a bit dim sometimes though and needs to be told more than once! He's just a big baby and he likes to wind her up sometimes.

She's quite loving with all of us, especially if she thinks it'll fill her ever empty stomach!  She just seems a bit skittish still.  I often wonder if it's her nervous temperament that keeps her so thin (you know how people often say 'oh, she lives on her nerves' about someone who is a worrier and underweight) that's the impression I get from Fudge.

I don't think that separating her from the other cat's would help, she keeps herself pretty much separated anyway.  When we separated her when she had her kittens, she couldn't wait to be back to normality.  She stays away from the other cat's, they all do actually, they all have their own spots in the house and unless they are outside, they can normally be found there.

She does seem to be quite sensitive to foods, we had a terrible bout of diarrhoea with her back in May, which she was seeing the vet for every few days, lasted for about 3 weeks and in the end the vet did exploratory surgery but didn't find anything specific.  During this time we changed her food lots of times to try to find the problem.  We still don't know if food was an issue but we've kept her off the food she was on when it started ever since.  She's always had this overgrooming problem and we've changed dry foods quite a few times since we've had her, the latest one that she's on, she's only been having for about a month.

Anyway, thanks for your input, it's given me a few more things to think about and watch out for.  It's good to know I'm not the only one with a constantly  dustbin for a cat!

Kathy

[Nick (Peanut & Boo)]

Hi Kathy
only just seen this thread. Fudge looks a real cutey and reminds me of my BooBoo (aka lardass)  and therein lies the reason for posting really because apart from the overgrooming which sounds like a nervous type issue she exhibits the same symptoms as my Boo.
When I first got Boo she was a little runt and came with her brother who was twice the size literally.

At feeding times Boo would charge for the plate and muscle her way to the front of the cue and eat everthing on the plate. The other cats just stepped back and let her eat their food. I had to put 3 bowls down and yet she would still finish hers first then push the other cats off their bowls and finish theirs.

She never stops eating or begging for food all day and all night ! Ahhhhhhhh 

She is very hyper, full of energy, flies around everywhere and is the healthiest looking cat you could imagine. Only problem is she is as round as she is long.

Many people have suggest reasons for her continual eating but I suspect it may be hypoactive thyroid but apart from waddling and her belly dragging on the floor she seems happy enough so I am not overally concerned. yet!

Like fudge she is very nervous and will only interact with me. She is very effectionate to me and treats me as one of her family/tribe. Everyone else gets a ferocious growl which sounds just like a dog and certainly makes most visitors take a step backwards.

I am convinced that animals are very much like us in so far as there is a huge variety of character and disposition which is influenced by both their genes and the circumstances of their upbringing, early influences.

Regarding the overgrooming have you thought of contacting an animal behaviourist ?  It may be something to do  with how secure she feels in your home with the other cats. In the cat world  establishing and maintaining dominance is a daily battle that never ends. It is re-enacted every day several times a day to reinforce the staus quo. My two have stand up (sit up ) boxing matches and fights every day which usually ends in Boo squealing in mock pain and shooting upstairs under the bed. Theres hissing and spitting and snarls and yet later they are curled up together on the kitchn table ?

It might be worth trying to seperate fudge for a week or so and see if there is any improvement I know its impossible in a multicat house but perhaps you could create a space that is protected and not easily reached by thre others so she has somewhere that is her own space , Put in a cardboard box and a used T shirt of yours and she might not feel so threatened and vulnerable.

I just wanted to let you know that we are all supportive and others are also going through similar issues with our moggs and sharing experiences can sometimes  help

oooooooo forgot to say . It is possible that she is suffering from a food allergy or more accurately a sensitivity. It would definitly be worth changing her dry food to another brand and seeing if there is any improvement over a week or more. Dry foods are a well documented source of skin problems due to over sensitivity. You would need to make sure none of the other cats dry food is available to her as her system will need to completly evacuate any residue ie 3-4 days before any improvement might become apparent.

[Kathy]

Thanks for the responses Ela and Gill.

Ela, I will give the Feliway spray a try, I was going to try the spray rather than the plug ins as were a bit limited for sockets in our house and you can get the spray in a travel/trial size, so I won't have spent too much if it doesn't work.

I didn't mean to mislead you Ela, Fudge wasn't pregnant when we took her in as a stray.  She came to us in November '05 and had her kittens at the end of March '06.  I'm afraid that it was partly our fault that she ended up pregnant.  When we decided that we were going to keep her we took her to the vets for a MOT, worming, fleaing, Jabs etc  and the vet told us that she was 99% certain that she'd already been spayed!  We had another cat at the time that was just coming upto the age to be spayed and was showing all the signs of coming into season, we also had about a dozen tom cats on the garden...dead give away, so we rushed her off to the vets to be done, only to find Fudge, later in the day on the garden with the toms having a right good time!

Yes Gill, She's insured...good job too as it cost just over £500 when she had an very bad spate of unexplained diarrhoea and vomiting back in May.  They're all regularly flea'd and wormed, we don't use the pet shop cr*p either, we get it from the vets, it's called Milbemax and the vet sends us a reminder when they are due again.

We gave the vets a ring about the thyroid thing, as she had loads of tests done in May, I kinda hoped that she'd had that one, but she hadn't.  They said that the Thyroid test would cost about £50, but that they doubted that would be the problem because of her age.  I said that, because of the time of year I would rather not have to fork out £50 and they said that if she isn't actually loosing weight, that we'd be OK waiting until the new year.

Not sure what to do now...mulling it over

She does look camouflaged on the floor doesn't she, she's such a cutie and I love her to bits, hate to think that she's not happy...funny thing is she does appear to be, other than the overgrooming thing.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

First thing.........do you have her insured,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if not get her insured before doing anything else. You will then have to wait 14 days for the insurance to be operative.

Second has she been wormed?

She sounds a bit young for a thyroid problem but if you are insured then I would get her to the vets for a check over and some worming meds, if she has not been wormed.

I think she looks gorgeous and almost in camaflouge ?sp as she blends in with the floor 

She sounds like she is doing fine except for the grooming problem which I would suspect is her nervousness but this along with the weight needs checking out.

Yes Feliway may help to calm her.

[Ela]

To be honest if it were my cat I would have a word with the vet  as if it is anything it can be sorted sooner rather than later, you could try Feliway, I personally have only had success with the Feliway spray however, some people  have with the plug in. I have tried it loads of times and not once has it worked for my cats, oh well such is life. Of course these things do take time, so perhaps a vet visit and Feliway, rather than spending time waiting to see if Feliway helps finding it does not and the cat is deteriorating.

If you lived in our Town as you had taken the little one in as a stray we would pay for the vet to MOT the little one and cover anything that needs doing initially.

[Kathy]

Thanks for the replies.

We tried Rescue Remedy...that doesn't seem to have any effect on her. Do you think that Feliway would help her overgrooming problem?  Would it also help her to calm down a bit?

I will definitely be checking out the thyroid thing with the vet...have been reading a bit on the web about it and this is what I found for a list of symptoms:

Weight loss (typical, but not always)...yes, but was always quite small and started really losing weight after a litter of kittens and a 3 week bout of diarrhea for which dispite spending £500+ at the vets no definitive diagnosis was made.
Increased appetite without weight gain...yes, for first 4 months when we had her she behaved just like my other cats regarding food, but since having the kittens/diarrhea she is constantly hungry and always on 'fridge duty'.
Intermittent bouts of vomiting and diarrhea...yes, see above, no massive bouts since the major one back in March but has had a couple of runny bum days.
Increased energy and friskiness...yes, kind of, we always put it down to her personality and because she is skittish, she never seems to saunter/slink along like the other cats do, she's always running around like her a*se is on fire
More vocalization...yes, but again, we have always thought that was her personality, she wasn't so vocal at first but again we thought that was just her settling in and then her personality coming out more over time.
Demanding food more frequently...god yes, I honestly think that if I carried on feeding, she wouldn't stop eating until she popped!
Drinking more water...yes, she drinks more than the others, but again could be a personal preferance thing, maybe she likes it more than the others, mine are all on a mainly wet diet, so none of them drink very much.
More frequent urination...hard to tell, as for the most part they don't use the litter tray, although Fudge uses it the most.
Decreased appetite (less common, but can be a symptom)...NO
Decreased activity (less common, but can be a symptom)...Hard to tell as we've only had her a year and she's still nervous, but certainly not decreased in time we've had her.
Weakness (less common, but can be a symptom)...Not really, she does get over excited when she plays with the laser beam toy, we can only do it with her for a few minutes as a time, as she puts her all into it and ends up a right panting wreck!
Labored breathing and panting (less common, but can be a symptom)...only after over exerting herself
Tachycardia (rapid heart rate)...She does seem to breath faster than the others sometimes, but again, we always but that down to her being nervy.
Typically a cat with this disease will be aged 12 to 13 years...NO, our first vet said she was about 3, our new vet said between 1 and 3.  I know ageing a cat can be difficult but I don't think that they would have got it that wrong. We were surprised at the vets guess on her age though, when we first had her, we were convinced she was an older cat as she behaved like an old lady.

So, all you medically minded peeps, what do you think, should I just mention it when I see the vet next, or do you think she needs to be seen sooner?  Do any of you know of any other symptoms that I could rule out to put my mind at rest?

I'm really trying to convince myself that these things are a series of unrelated things and just her personality and the fact that she's nervous, but I don't want to bury my head in the sand, if she really is poorly.

  this is a long post, sorry guys.

[Beccles]

  Poor love.. have you tried the usual feliway diffusers/Rescue Remedy type solutions?

About the eating/not putting on much weight thing - although it's deeply unusual in such a young cat it may be worth checking this with a vet in case there's a thyroid issue. More likely than not she's just a bit of a skinny 'teenager' but it may be worth mentioning next time you see your vet, just in case.

[Ela]

You could try seeking the advice of a homeopathic vet.

[Kathy]

Hi Guys,

As some of you already know, Fudge came to us as a stray, we searched for a few months for her owner before deciding to make her a part of the family.  The vet seems to think she's between 18 months and 3 years old.

She's always been a little skittish.  She jumps at loud noises and fast movement still, (we've had her for 13 months now) She's terrified of being picked up, I'm not sure if this is just part of her nervousness or if something awful happened to her in her past.  We can usually pick her up, if there is more than one of us doing it, kinda like a group hug thing, she needs to feel totally protected to enable us to do it, and even then she hides her face when we do it!  We bathed her once, and I don't think it'll be an experience we'll be repeating too often, it took 3 of us and we all still bear the scars!

We try to do everything at Fudge's pace, we don't push her into doing anything she's not ready for.  She is so loving when she's on a chair or surface and has the loudest purr I've ever heard.  In fact she's sat on a chair next to the computer with me now, she's just come in through the cat flap, and is happily telling me all about her morning and having a nice neck scratch.

She seems to get along with the other cats just fine.  Max can be a little boisterous for her, but he can be a bit of a thug! She usually just runs away from him when he wants to play, or smacks him on the nose...he's a bit dim though, it usually takes quite a few smacks before he gets the message.

She is at her least nervous when there is food around, every time someone moves, she flies into the kitchen and onto the worktop and starts doing her 'I'm so pretty' face and screaming in her 'I'm wasting away here' voice!  She still seems to be constantly starving and although she's filled out a bit since we had her, for the amount she eats, she should be twice the size.  I often wonder if it's her nervous disposition that's burning off all the calories she eats in no time.

OK, enough of the background, I'm sure you all get the point. 

The problem I'm having is that she's overgrooming the insides of her back legs, she's almost bald, she looks so odd compared to Mia, who from the back looks like she's wearing a pair of pantaloons as she has so much hair there.  We've tried the Rescue Remedy stuff and that didn't seem to have any effect on her.  All the cats are regularly wormed and flea'd, so that's not a problem, there isn't any sign of irritation on the skin, so I don't think it's any kind of skin complaint.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Thanks loads

Kathy...the phantom lurker (sorry guys, wrists are playing up big time)

Here's a pic of my little darlin' (If I did it right!)



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