Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: pinky on September 17, 2007, 21:38:27 PM
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I am looking into getting my first cat (more than likely 2!). My partner has had cats in the past and all have been allowed outdoors. I know that I would worry if my cat was outdoors for safety reasons etc. Is it fair to keep cats in doors as long as they are not alone and have plenty toys? Or should cats be given the option to go outdoors?
Any opinions? :-:
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My kittens are indoor and they seem fine :) I have two cat trees and piles of toys for them and they really do seem happy
Its no longer safe outside for humans never mind cats :(
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Mine are indoor/outdoor in a cat-proofed garden....they were indoor only up to a couple of months ago and it never did them any harm.....
Before i moved i used to let mine out through the day cos i thought it to be a safe area ie.. no roaming dogs, no main roads etc but one of my lot went missing for 13 days and he was trapped in a garage/lock up type thingy.....i decided to keep them in from then on...mine have adjusted perfectly ;)
As long as you have enough to keep them agile (yes cat tree's are perfect) and not forgetting they love to play with us human's also i cant see the prob with being indoor only ;)
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Think I am leaning more towards indoor and making sure they have plenty toys to play with.
Have any of your indoor cats tried to make a run for open doors?
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I have had both indoor and outdoor cats, although they have all, always been indoor at night. Some have had to adapt to indoor when they were previously outdoor. Most do not mind. If they have never been outdoors there is no compelling reason for allowing them out, and a lot of compelling reasons for keeping them inside - less risk of RTAs, fights, infectious diseases, poisoning or deliberate cruelty (see the thread 'entitled my cat has been shot...'. So, for me, I would have them indoors all the time if possible, though having said that, my present lot will probably be outdoor once Smidgen has his microchip embedded as they will be company for the dog, and keep him distracted from the fox who has taken up residence over the back fence.
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HI Pinky :welcome:
It's a very hard decision and depends on really how safe your area is although nowadays no area is totally safe for cats anymore sadly.
Have a read of this page in our Behaviour section about indoor cats. http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php?topic=4872.0. Theres so much great info in there to keep indoor cats happy.
There is also a thread of great things like Kittywalks which are fantastic for inddor cats to give them the space they need inside. http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php?topic=7649.msg119571#msg119571
Is there a way you could cat proof your garden? Some of us done that and it's great to see them enjoying the outside air safely. :) here's some info on that http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php?topic=4802.0
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:)Thanks :)
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My four cats go outside at the back and oine imparticular would not tollerate being an indoor cat.
I think as long as cats are as safe as they can be they should be able to go out.
This is a subject, ummmm one of many that we all have different views on ..........sigh ;D
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Yeah cos although mine are indoor/cat proofed garden etc i would love to run through field's with them (lol! @ run!) if i lived out in the sticks mine would defo be outdoors ;)
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Think I am leaning more towards indoor and making sure they have plenty toys to play with.
Have any of your indoor cats tried to make a run for open doors?
my two are converted to indoor cats from been pretty much out door only and if you open the door they just sit there and watch they don't try to bolt after the first few weeks
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I have two cats that would bolt via the front door so you have to be careful making sure they are not close ;)
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Mine are indoor and always have been. You have to spend a lot of time entertaining them, but it's doable. It's not safe for them to be outside where I live.
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Hi Susanne how often do you play with them hun? Do you have set play sessions everyday in short multiple bursts or longer less sessions ?
:Luv:
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The indoor/outdoor debate has gone on for a long time and as with everything in life we all have our own opinions and are certainly entitled to them and should not force them on anyone. We can however pass our knowledge on to others so they can then make an informed choice. Most Chesterfield CP fosterers keep their cats in and would not dream of letting them out. Of course some of you are lucky enough to live in an environment that is ideal for cats to go out in these cases we are more than happy to home indoor/outdoor cats. I appreciate that there is nothing nicer than seeing a cat playing on a lawn, if only the cats would stick to the house boundaries and idiots and dogs that are not cat friendly would not infringe those boundaries it would be wonderful. I used to let my cats out however, through my own experiences and what I hear (I personally have over 700 calls a month) my reasons are: - Cats who live indoors are generally healthier and live longer (I appreciate there are exceptions to the rule) A person can have an indoor cat that didn't live very long but this would normally be because of natural issues not environmental. One of my own cats almost lived at the vets for the first 3 years of her life as there was always something wrong with her and I did not think she would survive much longer. Once I started to keep her in her health improved 100% and she lived until her late teens.
Cats who live indoors never succumb to getting run over by a car. Many cats that are hit by a car do not win the contest, or if they do, suffer terrible injuries and take many months of nursing. We have numerous accident pens which are in constant use and the daily calls I receive for help with the vet’s fees is amazing. A lady once phoned me to see if I could help with the vets fees as her cat had been run over and broken a leg, I explained the position and knowing the area where she lived said 'I would advise you to keep your cat in we only home indoor cats in your area'. A few months later I received another phone call about the same thing and recognised the voice and said 'I bet you will keep your cat in now'. she replied 'oh! it's alright it was the other leg this time'. Of course we cannot pay vet fees for owned cats, if we did we would have no funds to rescue. Most vets nowadays will not let people pay weekly as so many people have let them down and they are owed thousands, so that is perfectly understandable. We occasionally do try to help however, sadly on many occasions we too have been let down. So many people say they will have the cat PTS so it will not suffer, often in reality they are thinking that their purse will suffer and not the fact that their cat could be saved and live a happy life once again if treated by a good vet. Cats who live indoors are never in contact with other cats so are not in danger of a disease like FIV & FeLV I appreciate that there is an injection for Leukaemia however in the UK there is no injection for FIV. A couple of years ago we had 38 cats tested for FIV 35 were positive, there are also other diseases cats are protected from when living indoors. Often I am told Oh! its alright round here 'me ducks', there are loads of cats round here, again that is not the ideal situation (unless out in the countryside) as they chase each other, often into the path of a car and also the more cats the more likely to pick up infections. On another occasion a lady who lives close to a very busy road once phoned me and asked for a cat, I asked it she wanted an indoor cat, and she said oh! no, when I suggested that she lived too close to the busy road for a indoor/outdoor cat she replied oh! its ok if the cat turns right outside the front gate it can go up the street and into the woods, it would only be in danger if it turned left. If you can suggest how to teach a cat right from left please let me know. I even had a phone call at midday to say a fox has just run down my road (in the middle of an estate) with a cat in its mouth.
Cats who live indoors won't be getting into fights with neighbouring cats, or get seriously injured or killed by another animals. They are not in danger of being stolen, contrary to what some people say this is quite prevalent. Vivisection does happen and they have to get the animals from somewhere, previously some were from Hillgrove, as we all know this has now been closed. Dog baiting in certain parts of the country is also rife and of course cats for the fur trade is not uncommon either. Cats who live indoors will never be a nuisance to neighbours, I know not all cats are, but some are unintentionally. It is not unheard of for some unkind neighbours to relocate a loved cat or even hand in to are rescue as a stray. (Another reason for having your cat Micro-chipped.) see chipping
I know many people think that as long as a cat has a life outside that is OK even if it is short, and people who keep cats in are cruel however, as I said previously we are all entitled to our opinion. I personally think I am the adult able to make a choice based on informed knowledge; unfortunately my cats are not able to take in that information.
Most rescues will be happy to home certain cats indoors for a variety of reasons, some you will have read before e.g. if a cat has FIV. Can you imagine the feeling if you took in a cat/kitten found it was FIV positive and then had to take it to the vets for PTS after you had rescued it and nursed it back to health and strength? Or a mother cat had kittens, you watched them being born, their first steps etc., and then found they were FIV positive and you knew full well that, if a home could be found, the cat/kitten could live its full life span. Although there is no cure for FIV it does not mean that an infected cat (if otherwise well) has to be PTS. If a cat is diagnosed as having FIV the first thing you must do on getting it home is to make sure that it does not go outside again. It must not come into contact with the neighborhood cats, not only to protect the other cats from the disease, but also to protect the FIV infected cat from infections and diseases to which it will be susceptible from coming into contact with viruses and bacteria. We home cats that are deaf, blind, white, on certain medications and cats with a multitude of problems (many as a result of an RTA) as indoors cats and the fosterers feel that the safest environment would be indoors. We also take in numerous cats that have never been out so that too would be irresponsible to re-home them to go out. Fortunately Over 50% of requests for cats are for indoor only cats, You can nowadays get screens for the windows see www.cataire.co.uk that allow the windows to be fully open but keep the cats safely in and of course flies out. Also it is quite easy to make a garden or part of it cat safe. We can arrange for you to see the screens and a cat safe garden if required, for literature on how to make a garden cat safe and should you decide to go ahead a £25 discount please contact Elaine
Some people who ask for an indoor cat say they will buy a harness, unfortunately some cats have lost their lives to these e.g. recently on 2 separate occasions a cat has seen a bird on the fence simply slipped the harness jumped over the fence, shot through the neighbours garden and straight into the path of a car. Other owners have thought they are doing their cat a favour and attached the collar or harness the cat was wearing to a washing line or something fixed closer to the ground, 3 cats in a short period of time were hung from lines and a couple of others have strangled themselves when fixed closer to the ground.
PLEASE NOTE It is just as important for indoor cats to be neutered/spayed as it helps to eradicate many forms of cancer, e.g. Breast, Ovarian, Uterine and Testicular, also enlargement of the prostate and related infections, female cats will not get pyometra (The word “pyometra” is derived from latin “pyo” meaning pus and “metra” meaning uterus, pyometra is an abscessed, pus-filled infected uterus. Toxins and bacteria leak across the uterine walls and into the bloodstream causing life-threatening toxic effects, without treatment death is inevitable) also cats safer from mammary tumours. Pyometra and mammary tumours are more common than you may think.
As long as you are doing what your head (with the informed information above) and heart tells you, then you are acting in what you think is your cats best interests and no one should argue with that.
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I plan on keeping Leo as an indoor cat. Have recieved the harness I ordered on Thursday & will train him indoors untill he is comfortable with it.. then take him to a stretch of quiet green where I can walk him out of harm.. Im hoping that he will be ok with this as I do want him to experience some out door life.. he will have to learn tho he only goes out with mummy at scheduled times !
I too have got the Cat tree & lots & lots of toys, hangy things.. I even got him 2 feather dusters as kittens love feathers ! I got various toys that I can swap from time to time to ensure he doesnt get bored & have brought a mini radio which i will leave on while im at work. When I get home from work he has my 100% attention & we can play till his little heart is content!!
I get him on 22nd Sep.. I will keep everyone updated on how he is doing
Good luck Pinky :)
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I'm definately on the Indoor or Indoor with outside run opinion ;)
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mine have outdoor access to cat proofed garden, we lost one last year to rta and it was horrible
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Exactly my worry. I will not let any cat I own be subjected to that danger anymore. I felt awful when this happend to Chico my cat when i was younger. Saying that tho it was only recently when I started speaking to breeders about cats living indoors that I had ever heard of it.. a year ago I would of said it was cruel as his is everyones initial reaction.. everyone i speak to now when I mention that Leo will be indoor cat say "Isnt that a bit cruel" Its not untill you explain the dangers to people that then they go "Oh yeah I suppose!"
OPf course there will always be the people who are dead against it.. !
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I've said before that in 10 or so years i am sure when you have the same said conversation but were to say you would let him out folk with give you a funny look. The indoor cat movement is defo hugely increasing what with traffic volume, city wildlife, increased yob culture etc etc.
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I think alot depends on the cat TBO and of course where you live
I tried making mine indoor cats but they HATED it -
So now i do allow them out but i limit the time they are allowed out for and they are always in as evening approaches. (apart from Willow of course who tends to like to vanish for days lol)
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it's the yob thing that bothers me most, my friends sisters cat come home one evening dragging its back legs, they thought rta but the vet said that the break in the spine was consistant with it being stamped on - lovely
I know all to well how cruel people can be.. My cousin who was 7 got a kitten. The kitty got out & they found it in the morning & it had had broken glass put in his eyes that were then superglued together :censored: :censored:
Also when I was young my friend got a cat as a rescue who had been tied to an exhaust pipe of a motorbike & had burns all down his belly :( :(
Some people discust me.. nothing like that is ever going to happen to Leo.. I know this for sure.. as long as I am around to protect him he will be fine !
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that makes me go cold Lisa, who are these sick people
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Bilbo needs a jaunt outside every day. I know people say that cats would get used to being indoor only, but I'm certain that Bilbo wouldn't. After his recent operation we had to keep him inside for just over two weeks - he was so depressed it was awful to see. We're lucky though, in the respect that we live out in the sticks, with fields to both sides and behind us.
Baggins, on the other hand, would be quite happy to be inside all day.
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that makes me go cold Lisa, who are these sick people
I know.. It makes me physically sick. My cousin (7) was devastated. She was diagnosed with Cancer & wished for a kitten.. They got her one so she could spend her last few months with him & then that happens & the kitty was put to sleep. My little cousin died 4 months later :'(.. as she lost her battle bless her. I do know though that kitten would of had a very happy healthy life if it wasnt for the scum that did that to him :'(
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That's awful Lisa, there are sadly some very sick people out there :(
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I know. she was devastated about the kitty - well anyone would be wouldnt they especially a 7 year old dealing with that. She as a fighter though bless her she took her illness all in her stride.. never once mentioned her pain or suffering ... she has been resting in peace for sevaral years now.. :Luv:
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I believe cats should have the opportunity to go outside and indulge in normal cat behaviours as far as possible. Up until 10 yrs ago I would never have dreamt of even confining my cats to an enclosed garden, never mind keeping them indoors, but after losing several to RTAs I had to think again.
I even seriously thought about not having cats at all, rather than confine them, but decided to try a large cat run attached to my house. Most of them adapted, one never did, so he had, and continues to have his freedom. I now live in a safe area away from through traffic, and have a safely enclosed area of the garden for nightime, so they can still go in and out at will, but not wander. But during the day, my cats all have the free range of the rest of my large garden. Harry continues to free range and I would never think about restricting him.
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Im hoping that Leo will get used to it as he will be indoors from a kitten. Thats not saying tho that when I move into a house with a garden he won't have a run .. :)
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Well in our mob we have the indoor/outdoor squad - 21 and Minmin the raggy on a nice day and the 15 indoor only so speak from both sides
We have domestic and feral on both sides of the door so to speak and some choose to stay in and others stay in cause we prefer it that way.
All the others are in everynight and currently Robin spends his evenings rounding up the mob through the various doors and windows as all the ferals have one coming in spot and its not the back door! he is also training Sky who now thinks his name is Sky No!
In an ideal world all our babes could be safe but we hope to put an outdoor run on in the next 12 to 18 months so the inside crew can sunbathe outside
We have lost 2 to RTA's and know the problems associated with this but ours now have an idyliic setting with woods, trees and loads of space and a single dirt track with potholes that does slow you down!
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Hi Susanne how often do you play with them hun? Do you have set play sessions everyday in short multiple bursts or longer less sessions ?
:Luv:
I generally aim for several short play sessions during the evening, but Mosi being Mosi I usually end up playing for hours every evening! When I get home from work (usually between 4.30pm and 5pm but sometimes a bit later) I feed them and for some reason Mosi loves to play after eating! So we have about 45 minutes of play which usually has me on hands and knees being goalie while he and Jaffa try to get a foil ball past me ;D Or some running after a da bird type toy or the laser. Then we have another play session about 8pm which may last until supper time (10pm) or may just be half an hour or so with a further session before bed. At least with da bird type toys you can sit on the sofa watching tv and wave it up and down for a bit without too much exertion. With Mosi the challenge is varying the toys and games as he gets bored with the same ones so he really tests my ingenuity!
Before I got Mosi, Jaffa tended to have one play session in the evening involving running after something like da bird (30-45 mins), plus a few other, shorter games throughout the evening, eg picking up a toy that's on the floor and waving it around for him to swipe at for a few minutes.
I don't think Jaffa would like to go outside now. He's always been a timid cat and a bit of a clingy, mummy's boy and I genuinely think he's happiest being at home with his meowmy, having cuddles and play. Mosi would have zero road sense and is so friendly he'd approach anyone. The breeder I bought him from recommended he stay indoors (they used to let theirs outside but lost 2 to RTAs), and I know the breeder who bred Mosi's mum insists any kittens she sells are kept as indoor cats.
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It definitely depends on the cat and where you live. I have a main road to the front of my terraced house, but it's quite a long way round to that. Behind is all gardens and allotments, which is where my three spend their time, although they come in at night. I couldn't contemplate restricting them - Sabby would die of depression if he couldn't go out (he hates it if I have to keep him in during the day). For him there could be no compromise - he's a very social cat (towards other cats - not humans) and loves to meet up with his mates down the allotments. He literally asks to be let out each morning, before he's had breakfast! And bounds with exuberance when he hits the back garden! Shanti, on the other hand , would probably take quite well to being kept in as she is a home body and doesn't get on with other cats very well (except my other two, of course).
I reckon if they've never been exposed to the great outdoors they're probably not going to suffer being an indoor cat, though.
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Mine are indoor too at the moment, but they do seem to want to go outside. I'm in two minds about whether to let them in a month or two. It used to be roads I was scared of but now it's dogs after what happened to Jasmine. I do worry about them getting bored. They don't seem to bother with the cat tree anymore, although they still play a lot with their other toys.
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Thanks for all the helpful replies :thanks:
Does anyone own or have an opinion on cat runs?
Was thinking that if I kept indoor cats, a cat run in the garden would be an option.
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Does anyone own or have an opinion on cat runs?
Was thinking that if I kept indoor cats, a cat run in the garden would be an option.
I used to have a cat run, great idea especially if you can incorporate part of the garden and attach it to the house, so that cats can have free access in and out, as well as being able to have doors and windows open in the summer. Make it as interesting as possible, climbing posts, shrubs to hide under, water features etc etc. Here's some pics of the one I used to have.
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb234/scruffyjoe/Cats/Catrun1.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb234/scruffyjoe/Cats/CatRun3.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb234/scruffyjoe/Cats/CatRun2.jpg)
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That looks fantastic! Never thought of the option of joining one onto house, and you're right - much easier for leaving windows open then.
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Felix made this http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php?topic=7354.25
Or you could op for an easy option and get something along this lines http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Full-length-Roof-9ft-x-4ft-Cat-House-And-Run-Cattery_W0QQitemZ150160562856QQihZ005QQcategoryZ1284QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem OR
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Double-Full-length-9ft-x-8ft-Cat-House-And-Run-Cattery_W0QQitemZ150160588979QQihZ005QQcategoryZ1284QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Have a search on ebay ;)
I have a very simple one (we're gonna be moving so didnt want to go over board) and luckily we could put a catflap through the hall wall at one end and the cats can come and go inside or staight out directly into their run which also has their we shed incorporated aswell which is where their litter tray goes ;D
(photo taken out of sons bedroom window but you get the idea.)
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Here's a couple more but not so good (i really need to go OUTSIDE and take some :evillaugh:
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Ebay ones seem very good and its good that they come in different sizes. We dont have a very big back garden so couldn't have one too big anyway.
Your cats look very happy in yours! ;D
Once I get my cats if they seem as though they need to go outside I would definetely think about investing in one.
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My one is very bland due to the impending move when our house sells but their old run (which was in the same place but filled that whole back area, its only about 1/3 of the size it was ) had a tree and everything in it, I'd prob get tree logs and make interesting things for them to scratch & jump on & a walk way etc but for now they are happy and it looks reasonably tidy to perspective buyers.
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Had never thought of putting in tree logs etc until I saw Felix's pics. Seems a very good idea. Never had cats before and want to make sure they will be very happy and safe.
Understand all about perspective buyers - just buying my first house! And what a nightmare that process is!
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I think a cat run's a great idea for anyone who has the space.
I do worry about them getting bored. They don't seem to bother with the cat tree anymore, although they still play a lot with their other toys.
Try moving the cat tree to another location, even if it's only temporary. I find that things like that become interesting again when they're in a new place ;D
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cat runs are the bees knees, but they still need to have lots of enrichment features, otherwise they are just a wire box.
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WOW all of those pictures are amazing ! I can dream ! :Luv:
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Mine are indoor / secure garden. Here's some pics of the before and after of my cat proofed garden when we redesigned it for the cats.
It's only small but hopefully will be enough to keep the lads happy until we can move to a safe area. It has a porch to keep dry but stay out, pond with fishies, 4 waterproof Tunnels covered in green felt, Two cat chalets, an enclosure on the shed roof, high walkways, Tall scratch posts and we are adding plants as we go along. Excuse the unkept grass, The lads like the overgrown stuff and i will get round to mowing soon i promice ;) :evillaugh:
The 1st pic is the old look before we started.
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and some more pics
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and just a few more :evillaugh:
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And one more Rio fishing :shify:
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ahh great pics ! Do they ever try & get out & over the fencing ? They look very happy puddys ! :)
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Had never thought of putting in tree logs etc until I saw Felix's pics.
In my largest cat pen apart from a sun lounger I have a branch going from floor to a high shelf and a small branch off the main one, on that is a tyre with a few cat toys in, the cats love to swing on it, they also use the branch to get to the high shelf, which has a comfy mat on it. They love to spend hours on there as it is a little higher than the fence and they can see the world go by but in safety.
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has anyone ever had trouble with local councils and neighbours putting up a cat run attached to the house in an urban area?
Never mind the cats, I want to wail when I see all those lovely gardens. I hate being flat bound and council refused us permission to build a small roof balcony on the flat roof outside the kitchen window. Just wondered if anyone had had building regs problems with cat runs if the house is terraced and the neighbours have a full view of the outside cat palace?