Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: JenGeorgieBob on November 02, 2010, 21:58:36 PM
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Hi,
The kittens (Fred and Ginger) which have settled in well here are poorly it seems.
Fred had what I thought was cystitis (and was right about) but the vet said she was worried about his kidney function, as his wee was mostly water and he has a bloated belly (both of them do, and always have had a bloated belly). She did a blood test to check his kidney function and said it was a little high, but they were not failing and she was happy to give him anti inflammatories and antibiotics for his cystitis.
She wants to do xrays and scans of his belly to see if he is retaining water and if so, it means they he (and it is likely his sister) have both got kidney problems.
Both of them are underdeveloped physically, as they had parvo when they were younger and are extremely small for their ages and have a variety of small physical defects (including the big bellys!). The RSPCA where I got them from said they had tested them a lot before I got them to check they were clear of everything and didn't have worms etc.
So, basically, I am crying and panicking and looking for some advice, any advice really. I will be popping to the RSPCA tomorrow morning to see what they say and recommend, and to try and find out what tests they did, but any help or reassurances would be very much appreciated at the moment!!!
Jen
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I'll be honest hun, I have no experience of kidney issues in younger cats at all.
Hopefully some of the rescue peeps with more experience will be able to advise :hug: :hug:
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Thank you, I just feel so bad, they have spent their whole little lives fighting, while their brothers and sisters and mum died, they finally get a home where they can play and actually live a little and then this. I am a sap and just can't stop crying :(
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I wish I could help but dont know anything either :hug: :hug: :hug:
I would be tempted to wait to see if the abs work and if so put the tests on hold, I know Sasa has always had a big tummy and is a rugbyball shape but no vet has ever said anythi ng about this.
It could be your vet is just trying to be sure of whats going on either for her own curiosity or for you.
You know your vet and also your cats and its up to you to decide what you allow your vet to do, bearing in mind any effect on your cats and yourself.
I have a birman who wouldnt eat after a dental and that progressed into xrays etc and oh what an interesting case! I was lucky that my vet was sensible enough to take advice from Bristol and then give me a copy of the report together with a long chat. Turned out he had only one working kidney with the other a pea size and dead. He also had stones near this kidney but in view of his age at the time of 15/16, Bristol recommended that nothing was done unless I wanted the kidney and stones removed but they could see no point in that.
It was not known how long he had been like this but it was not affecting him at all and his kidney was about normal for a cat of his age.
I know that others will totally disagree with me but I do not get tests or anything for any of my cats unless they are ill and specifically need them. All 4 are now 9 yrs or older and the birmans 17. I feel the stress to the cats is too much and would rather let them live their little lives in peace unless really necessary.
I hope Fred and Ginger are totally fine :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Thank you, that is quite reassuring, as neither of them are showing any sign of illness! I think that is why I am so shocked about it all, the only thing has been Fred's cystitis which started today, so has been caught early, but both of them play and tumble about like normal kittens. Even with the cystitis Fred has been playing! he is a bit subdued now, after being prodded and poked at the vets, I did keep asking if it could be that they haven't developed yet and she should not expect them to match other kittens their age developmentally and have normal kidney function as a result, but she did not say and I was so shocked and upset at the vets, expecting some antibiotics and to be told he has kidney failure! then to be told that the test results were not nearly as bad as she expected (she was good though and squeezed us in at 8 just as they were closing and did all the tests then and there without charging emergency consultation fees). I have never seen this vet before, I normally see a different one, I think she is new or a locum.
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Afraid I know nothing about kidneys either (other than my mums kidney disease!). What I would say though is that Dave was right round little kitten, even more so after his dinner. He would have a hard round tummy most of the time and he was perfectly healthy, vet never even mentioned it.
So I really hope it's just your vet being over cautious due to the kittens backgrounds :hug:
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So I really hope it's just your vet being over cautious due to the kittens backgrounds :hug:
Same here :hug:
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how old are they? Kidney problems are rare in young cats, but I have heard of them on the american forum, the youngest being picked up at 6 months old, she had a diet change and meds, and as far as I know is still alive, she is at least 4yo now. I am surprised they have done a blood test so soon into a case of cystitis though, and I would be tempted to get it repeated after the cystitis has cleared up, as it could be a false reading. Never heard of retaining water being linked to kidney problems, they are normally a tad dehydrated and need extra fluids.
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They are 6 months old, but not really fully developed, so physically, they look more like 3 month olds.
I am feeling a bit calmer this morning, I was confused by the water thing as well, but was a bit panicking and shocked, so didn't ask as many questions as I should have.
She said that she would not give him anti-inflammatorys (for the cystitis) without doing the blood test, as they could damage his kidneys.
On the plus side, this morning he seems fine and has not been straining for the toilet or anything, so the injections she gave him seem to have worked quickly.
I have phoned the RSPCA and they are going to find out what tests were done with their previous vets and go from there.
Thank you all for your help! has been reassuring and calmed me down a bit
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Sorry, I have no advice either, just wanted to give you some of these :hug: :hug: :hug:
as for the un-asked questions, I found it best to write them down as I thought of them
that way, when I went to the vet's again, I'd get my answer's
hth
:hug:
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I too was questioning the water thing like desley but had convinced myself I maybe wrong....thanks Des you have put my head straight again :hug:
I hope he continues ti improve and becomes totally well again quick. ;D ;D
Having all the info from RSPCA will be good in case any other probs occur .
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Do you think the vet you saw was a newby? Just wondering if they were "trying too hard?"I really don't believe in lots of tests,if the animal is acting fine,they(and you)don't need the stress.
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Thats a good question Catgirl ;D
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Your vet was obviously being ultra cautious so the fact that having done the tests whe was happy to go ahead and prescribe the anti-inflammatories would set my mind at rest. Maybe go in (or give her a ring) and talk to her about she really thinks may be wrong now that you've had toime to get over the initial shock. The question I would most want an answer to in your shoes would be what can be done about it if she does find a problem and what are the implications of doing nothing.
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Have you had an update from the RSPCA as to what tests were done? Hope the answer puts your mind at rest :hug:
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It does sound like quite a new vet to me, unless she was just concerned because of how small they are. I actually think your suspicions could be right. Something has just occured to me, what values were high? If it was Urea and not creatnine, then it could be nothing to worry about, if you only have raised Urea that is very common in infections, which is what cystitis is. I would hold off the x-rays and scan (as they have to be sedated for both), and in a month or so once the cystitis has cleared up, get another kidney panel done.
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well, Fred is fine, it seems the medicine they gave him has worked wonders and he is peeing fine, in the tray, back to normal running around attacking his sister. The next morning in fact, I was sitting in bed with 3 cats running about playing chase and hide, then Fred started playing bed mice!
The RSPCA got back to me, their vet is going to talk to my vet to try and clear things up, but so far haven't heard back from them. They did say though, that Ginger was thoroughly tested (a full blood panel) before rehoming, and it was thought that Gingers results would reflect Fred, as they are physically the same, same environment, siblings and so on, so at least we know that Ginger is just fine.
I think the vet was new, she was very young for a vet! so it could be she was trying to be thorough, which is not necessarily a bad thing, just made me quite panicked!
The RSPCA have asked that I transfer their care back to their vets now and they will cover the costs of any scans, if their vets feel Fred needs any, but I think they want to wait and do the blood test again when the cystitis is completely cleared up.
I was thinkning of getting some cystease to prevent any further flare ups, but Fred and Ginger regularly swap bowls, so would it be ok for Ginger to have it even though she has not had cystitis before?
Thanks for all the advice, I feel much calmer and if there is something wrong, then I am sure there is something that can be done to keep him healthy (prescription diet and so on) as he is happy and healthy in himself, is lively and bright and eating well.
:)
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Fred will have his blood test today, so fingers and toes and paws crossed please!!! He has been fine in himself, Ginger is getting him into mischief as usual and they have been running around chasing each other all morning.
Jen
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Fingers toes and paws crossed for you :hug:
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Everything crossed here too :hug:
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:hug: hope everything goes well xxx
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All paws crossed here :hug:
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Thank you for all the crossed paws and fingers and toes! Fred was very good at the vets and didn't wriggle or anything, but we do have to wait about 2 days for the blood test results. The vet said that she thought that although they have little pot bellies, they would be much bigger than they are if there was water retention and she had a good feel for anything unusual in both their bellies, but everything felt normal.
Sadly Fred had an empty bladder so she couldn't check his urine, I might have to get a urine sample depending on what the blood test results tell us about Fred.
She seemed very good and everyone at the rescue could not believe how much they had grown!!!
She also said that their adult teeth are only just coming through, so if she did not know any better, she would age them as small 5 month old kittens rather than the 6 1/2 months they are, they checked their records and they cam into the rescue at 4 weeks old, so it seems they are developmentally a little behind, which is what I thought.
So, it is just a waiting game...
What was lovely is that they came home, I sat on the sofa next to Benji and they both jumped on my lap for cuddles while Benji tried to give them a good wash to get rid of the vet smell...3 purring cuddling cats and Benji mothering 2 kittens who have disrupted his home, who steal his food, wake him up, trample all over him and yet he is still so accepting of them! This is my idea of heaven!
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Benji sounds adorable and hope the results are good :hug: :hug:
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well, the results are in and the only thing that is raised slightly are his creatinine (sp?) levels, so they want a urine sample during the week sometime to completely rule out any kidney problems, but they weren't concerned based on his blood test results, so...it is looking good :)
thanks so much for all the help and reassurance!
Jen
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So pleased ;D
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Brilliant News ;D
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Great news Jen :hug:
I know dehydration, stress etc can give false readings so hopefully that was the case.
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Thank you!
Now just got to get a urine sample, have got the litter stuff, but might have to shut him in a seperate room to do it, otherwise I will end up with the wrong wee.
but at least it is looking good :)
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Glad things are looking much better, and good luck with the urine sample, I know how challenging they can be, although Buster is brilliant - he can't resist a litter tray, even if it is empty - 10 mins and you are guaranteed a urine sample from him!!
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When I used to get Max's wee samples, I had to follow him around until he went to his tray, wait until he was mid flow, then lift his tail and stick a shot glass in the way to catch some :evillaugh: :evillaugh:
He would never ever use the crystal litter stuff, so we had to resort to other measures :rofl:
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well, finally got the urine test results just now (had to pop a little jar under his bum while he weed, the other litter they just played in! lol)
and he is borderline, his urine is still very dilute and it shouldn't be apparently, but they are going to leave it and re-test him in a few months time, allowing him time to grow and develop properly, as they said they have had some kittens with dodgy results and when they have been left to grow, the results were fine...so, fingers crossed for his next set of tests which will be next year now.
I might ask if it is worth doing an ultrasound scan when he goes in for his neutering op (although I am not sure when that will be as he still has not descended) as then he will be under anyway?
Ginger will be neutered soon, so that he can have the extra time and hopefully his 'man-bits' will make an appearance! lol
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Hope it sorts itself out over time as the vet said. I think that's a good idea about the ultrasound while he's under the GA, much less stress for him and two birds with one stone :hug:
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Sending more good vibes and how old is he now? :hug: :hug:
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Thank you for the vibes :)
They are coming up to 7 months old now! I can't believe it!
They are still small for their age but are growing well and are enjoying wrestling matches with Benji now (which is worrying to watch as he is 4 times their size! but there is never any injuries or anything and they always go back for more wrestling games and jump on his head and poke him in the face, lol)
I love that Fred loves his washings from Benji so much he runs up to Benji and sticks his head at Benji as if to say 'I'm dirty, its wash time!' hehe, and Benji always obliges, both of them purring away.
With Fred's neutering, I was going to leave it until he is 1 year and then enquire about having his bits removed despite them not having descended (if they haven't by then) as they can cause problems if they are left? My mum's cat, Dog had his undescended testicle removed for that reason.
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Yes its the undescending that worried me cos very late, I am sure you have talked about this with your vet, but if not , maybe you should?
They all sound great and Sasa does that head pushing to get Misa to clean her and he obliges most of time LOL...........when he does t want he gentle wops her :hug: :hug:
Sounds like Fred and Benji get on great ;D
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Hope the problem resolves with time. It sounds like you have a very happy kitty family there :Luv2:
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I have spoken to the vet about the undescended when he had the blood tests about a month ago and she did not seem too worried. She did say they were teething then, and if she hadn't been caring for them when they were younger she would have put them at 2 months younger than they are, if that makes sense. It was only because she knew them, that she knew they were 6 months old at the time, so she said developmentally they seem to be 1-2 months behind (at least in regards to teething) and perhaps it is the same with Fred and his testicles, so to wait and see and try to give him as much time as possible.
Also, sounds strange, but I have never had any experience with this, but will it be that just one day Fred has a couple of furry golfballs? or do they descend and then grow? lol :-[ I don't really know what I am looking for!
I am very pleased with my little kitty family, its all I could ever have hoped for and I am so proud of my Benji and the way he is with them :)
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I have only ever had adults with only one descended testicle. I know normal advice is to wait until about 9 months before deciding to find the other one. They do need removing though, as they are more likely to turn cancerous if they haven't descended. It is a bigger op and more expensive though - both mine were lucky and they were easy to find, but sometimes they have to spend ages looking for it. Not sure if i would wait until yours are 12mo though, as even with just one testicle, their urine does have that lovely tom cat smell and they can spray.
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Just to update, Fred is being neutered today!
I took him in with his sister for advice and they found his testicles (but did say they are very small :rofl: poor Fred)
They repeated his blood tests before doing his op though and there has been no decline in kidney function but they did say there was no need to do an ultrasound, as his kidneys could look perfectly normal but the function be impaired and that older cats with kidney failure still might have 'normal' kidneys.
The vets were very good and are going to phone me when his sister Ginger wakes up and then when he wakes up! :)
My house is very quiet with no kittens :(
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Hope they are both back now and fine :hug:
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I second that. :hug:
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They are both back and seem fine. Very tired at first but they are perking up a bit now (Ginger has just been told off for trying to climb the speakers)
They all enjoyed their treat of boiled chicken as well :)
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Wonderful ;D
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Aw bless them :Luv2: :Luv2:
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Glad they are fine. I do understand your vets point about an ultrasound, Buster's kidneys are on the large end of the scale size wise, but his values are fine - if we had scanned him before bloods, we would have been suspecting kidney issues.