Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: Fire Fox on February 15, 2010, 20:46:26 PM
-
I have seen a few threads on other forums where those already on full benefits have adopted a kitten via Freecycle/ Gumtree or a cat from a rescue. At an early stage there has been a discussion about what the PDSA can offer, not always started by the OP to be fair. I have mixed feelings about this - on the one hand a much needed rescue space may be freed up, on the other PDSA resources presumably only stretch so far. How do others feel about this scenario from either a lay or rescue perspective? Should people on benefits take on a new animal? Should there somehow be more allowance for pet costs within benefits or debt management?
Please note I am newly on Jobseekers Allowance so am not in a position to judge anyone who finds themselves in difficult circumstances, and I hope I do not offend anyone by discussing this here. :scared:
-
Hi FF, I post over on MSE too but under a different name. I am on benefits and have 2 cats. I think the choice is purely personal, its a matter of what you are willing to go without yourself and if the animals are well cared for, then hopefully they will not need the services of the PDSA. My cats have only ever been for essential treatments (ie worming when I first got them, jabs, spay/neutering) The jabs have to be paid for, and I paid in full for the other stuff, just not the consultation fees (which is usually the most expensive thing!!) This is because it is my choice to have them and I am a responsible pet owner. I also try to make donations to the shop whenever I can, because I don't expect to get help for them for free.
They are also a great source of comfort and companionship, as I have said elsewhere, I suffer from depression and the cats have got me through many a dark hour.
:cutety:
-
I think if like yourself and me we find ourselves on benefits through no particular fault of our own then that's what the PDSA are for and I personally will not add to my furry family until I can afford all of those costs out of my own pocket. I also have mixed feelings about animals being takwn into consideration with benefits. At the end of the day I chose to have pets and if I have to go without to to feed them then that's a sacrifice I am happy to make. It would be nice to get a little extra for them though!
As for those taking on new adoptions when finances are stretched already and expect another charity to take the burden of veterinary costs I think is not on. If you can't afford to cover all costs yourself when taking on the adoption then I don't think it's right, working or not.
-
I've been on benefits due to health issues for a while and I do take other animals on. But other than food, obvious other necessities and bills that's where my money goes. When I need new jeans or suchlike I go to a charity shop and get them for a small sum of money.( That doesn't really bother me at all.) I haven't bought brand new clothes for a long time except for when I'm given money as a present and told explicitly it's for me not the cats.
The reason I take on the animals I do is because I can give them quality day to day care which when it comes down to it is better than them not getting that. ;)
-
When we first got kitty (rip baby) i was working 12 hours a week & OH was on benefits we then got Tiggy & Pippin i insured them all so that i knew if they needed emergency care i could afford to pay for it as the little bit a month i paid on insurance would save me alot in the long run, since then oh is working full time & im doing a few more hours at work xx
-
I am not on benefits but not a great earner. I would give up and do give up lots so my cats have what they need.
Likewise the benefits my 2 cats have given me healthwise is amazing. Suffering stress and anxiety the have been a lifesaver when i down.
I also very rarely buy clothes and stuff and have gor loads from Charity shops, getting different clothes and helping a charity at same time :)
There is many people who spend their benefit money on drink and drugs so why not people on benefits have a cat, far better than drink and drugs. Just my opinion
I would live on beans and toast for a month if ui meant my cats got something they needed
Zoe
-
I reckon its a pretty safe bet to say that 99% of people who post on here, who have been or who are currently in receipt of any sort of income support or "benefit" are going to be responsible pet owners, and make damned sure their companion animals dont go short!
Ive been on various benefits over the years - firstly income support when my then husband decided hed like to go off to pastures new and left me and my daughter with no income at all! :tired: We already had two cats .......
Then later in my life I had a work related accident and was on Incapacity benefit - again I had cats.
We always made sure that they didnt go short - we dressed from charity shops, hand ons whatever and I dont think either myself or my daughter felt we went short - the cats were as much family as us.
And the unconditional love those little cats gave us - we were truly blessed to have them in our family!
There will, sadly, always be the feckless who could work but cant be bothered. And who will take on pets (and have more babies) without considering the consequences. .... But I cant think of one person on Purrs who falls into that category :hug:
-
If only people took so much consideration when having more children!!!
;D
-
Like people on here, some people might be on benefits and will go without themselves to make sure their cats are well looked after, and no-one could say that they're bad owners or they don't deserve to own pets simply because they're not working for whatever reason. Personally I was looking at cats when I was on Jobseekers but wouldn't let myself get one because I wasn't in the financial position to (had myself and OH to support from one claim = no money to spare!) so I decided to wait until I had a job and had a bit more wiggle room with our finances. If you have enough money to provide adequate care for the cat, then it doesn't really matter where the money comes from.
If you're on benefits, adopt a cat even though you don't really have enough spare money, and then expect charities like the PDSA to pay for everything like chipping, neutering etc then that's a completely different matter and I think that that's wrong.
ETA - I've just read the thread on MSE that you're referring to Fire Fox. I can't help but say that it annoyed me, the lady has just adopted the cat and she already thinks she's entitled to a whole bunch of freebies as she's on housing benefit. I try not to rant too much about things like this, but it's just taking the mick and abusing what the charity is there for. If she can't afford possible vets bills, then she shouldn't have got the cat in the first place. Fair enough if a person's circumstances have changed and they find themselves needing to use the PDSA, that's what they're there for, not as a 'get out of paying' free card!
-
Well I suppose I can speak for one of those charities who are called upon when people can't pay for basic needs themselves. :tired:
It's bonkers to willingly take on a kitten and not think through how you will provide certain aspects of care or do so planning to expect a charity to pick up the tab. Yet we get it again and again, day in, day out. :innocent: It IS part or responsible cat ownership to neuter your pets. Charities exist as a SAFETY NET not a long term care plan. :tired:
So while I have full sympathy for people who find themselves in unexpected hardship and we will always support such people, it's the others who have no sense of personal responsibility that get on my wick. Pet ownership is NOT a right, it's a privelege and a luxury and comes with a serious long term financial commitment. If we view it any other way we are in danger of classing pets as material consumer products along with an X-Box or an Ipod. >:(
-
This is what makes me laugh, if someone has an x-box or such, they don't mind going out and paying 30 odd quid for a new game ( as well as funding their cigarette and alcohol habits!! ) but still want freebies for their pets.... and then there are people that think I am mad for spending 20 quid on a water fountain for my bubby's... lol!
I remember posting on FB somewhere that I took my pets to the PDSA but always made donations and was told that I shouldn't be using my benefits for this. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't drive and my only "vice" apart from cats is chocolate.
;D
-
I've been on benefits due to a nervous breakdown. it was tough going but my boys never wanted....They came first, I refer to them as my 'sons' thats the level of responsibility I feel for them. My ex would say 'oh..I want to buy this new game for the xbox' to be told in no uncertain terms that the money was needed elsewhere and he'd have to :censored: wait until someone got bored of it and he could buy it second hand for a fiver say!
I have used the PDSA and always did my best to make a donation. If I couldn't make a monetary donation then I would take in blankets, newspaper just in case they needed it. i never took them foregranted, I despised the chavs who would turn up with thier long suffering animal, moan about giving them a fiver, then get in thier tricked up chav mobile and butter off!
I do smoke, but am teetotal and never touch any illegal drug ( the legal ones are hard enough to deal with). ;)
-
We do get calls from people that I find quite irritating. People who ask if they are "entitled" to get money from us to pay for jabs, vet bills etc etc.
I took one such call quite recently. A chavvy sounding woman phoned on behalf of her brother. She asked if I could phone her (On a mobile btw - I usually keep these calls short and tell people that the charity can't afford to pay mobile calls - even though I am using my own minutes) to tell her what her "Bruvver" was "entitled" to for his new kitten. She said she wanted information on Neutering, vaccinations and "everything else that he is "entitled to" being unemployed. I too can understand people whos circumstances change needing help to keep their animals - but to take on new ones when you have no means to take care of them is moronic.
Basically, the answer to the original "New Adoptions" is no.
-
We do get calls from people that I find quite irritating. People who ask if they are "entitled" to get money from us to pay for jabs, vet bills etc etc.
I took one such call quite recently. A chavvy sounding woman phoned on behalf of her brother. She asked if I could phone her (On a mobile btw) to tell her what her "Bruvver" was "entitled" to for his new kitten. She said she wanted information on Neutering, vaccinations and "everything else that he is "entitled to" being unemployed. I too can understand people whos circumstances change needing help to keep their animals - but to take on new ones when you have no means to take care of them is moronic.
Basically, the answer to the original "New Adoptions" is no.
Amen to that! especially if its Chavs!
-
People circumstances change and they can find themselves on benefits, in these cases I really think that the PDSA is great and can certainly help, as others have said it is people that expect help without wanting to give back anything, (not necessarily money but as Ruth has said maybe blankets etc, or maybe a bit of volunteering to help out the PDSA fund raising etc) I am not on benefits but sometimes we find it hard to find the money that is needed for certain treatments, frontline time always hits us hard with 10 cats in the house, but we go without treats and the little extras that you add to your shopping trolley.
I dont think there is any definative answer to the question, if someone is on benefits and can give a cat a nice home and can cover the cost of neutering, injections etc and would only need help from the PDSA in unforseen circumstances then I think that is OK, but if someone wants to take a cat knowing they dont even have the money to cover the initial costs then that is wrong.
-
Some people on benefits have more money than others who work but earn a low wage.
-
I think it depends why you use charities - if you go into pet ownership expecting them to bail you out its wrong, if you happen to be going through a rough patch and need help that's different
-
I got Sweetie and the late great Toerag when I was unemployed - they had the best of everything I could afford and I ate very cheap food and lost loads of weight so they could have everything they needed - on seperating from first husband I got maintenance for them!
With the size of the Clan now we both work full time in my case full time temping for the Council - (for the Benefits section) so see the folks that we support and wonder why!
We have a large family and forgo a lot of things to keep them safe, vet checked and above all happy - beleive me when I say my worming bill is £150.00 a quarter for the cats, we also have £400 a month on average for the Program and Boosters on a monthly basis. we also had £30.00 a month for the late great feral Tiger with his diabetes. We have had some very large 4 figure bills but OH has a credit card for that and I never ask
Still I always advise the vet fix the cat the cost will come from somewhere - usually OH or my Dad
I also have my Boys Sky and Sunny to consider for Boosters, Program, worming and kennel cough etc and have to say Sunny is a bit accident prone and can even add being bitten by a posionous snake to his CV and he did most his his damage to himself before he was one :shocked:
We don't have holidays, or spend much on ourselves and grow a lot of what we eat and use coupons and look for bargins in fact I never pay full price for anything if I can get it at a bargin by waiting!!!! ;D
-
Some people on benefits have more money than others who work but earn a low wage.
me and hubby are in this criteria low wage workers. Most people where we live are mostly on benifits and they seam more well off then us.
They can afford pedigree dogs and HP cars
-
I live on a low income - pensions in my case - and would be quite unable to afford huge vet bills, and the nearest PDSA is over 50 miles away
so my three are insured - though to do it I had to cancel my Denplan insurance (and no NHS dentists around here either :scared:)
as for day to day costs, I would be pushed to feed them all on premier wet foods, but luckily for me none of them are very keen on wet food, and premier dry is affordable in bulk, and no waste either
-
I think it is the best way anyway. Most expensive wet cat foods are a con anyway whereas they seem to add the quality supplements such as glucosamine to quality dry. We feed decent dry - Hill's or similar with mainly felix & whiskas because they like it. I have tried all kinds of premium wet but it just goes to waste, as the the renal wet. I keep buying it as I feel like I am letting Clapton down if I don't keep trying but very little gets eaten.
-
My initial response to this question was, cats can be pretty expensive and a responsible person would not take one on unless they could afford it....
then I made the mistake of thinking, "supposing I found myself on benefits with no cat to share my life ?" and that put an entirely different perspective on the discussion :scared: I've never not had a cat. I simply couldn't face not having a cat. What would be the point? Suppose I could become a foster but that would be doomed to failure :-:
-
My initial response to this question was, cats can be pretty expensive and a responsible person would not take one on unless they could afford it....
then I made the mistake of thinking, "supposing I found myself on benefits with no cat to share my life ?" and that put an entirely different perspective on the discussion :scared: I've never not had a cat. I simply couldn't face not having a cat. What would be the point? Suppose I could become a foster but that would be doomed to failure :-:
Exactly my thoughts too.
-
My initial response to this question was, cats can be pretty expensive and a responsible person would not take one on unless they could afford it....
then I made the mistake of thinking, "supposing I found myself on benefits with no cat to share my life ?" and that put an entirely different perspective on the discussion :scared: I've never not had a cat. I simply couldn't face not having a cat. What would be the point? Suppose I could become a foster but that would be doomed to failure :-:
Would you get an additional pet whilst unemployed/on long term benefits though and expect the PDSA to take care of all it's medical needs? I think the PDSA should be there as a safety net for owners who have fallen on hard times/lost their job/reduced income etc You can get pet insurance from £5 a month so if you are on a low income then insurance should be the first priority in my opinion.
-
When I got Mogs I was working full time. When Amber walked in I was off sick but fully expecting to be working full time again very soon. 10 yrs later I know thats not happening. I pay insurance for Amber although it doesnt cover her for cystitis as she had that before the cover. I also paid for Mogs but obviously thats now cancelled. Since Mogs died I wont get another cat. Not only because its not fair on Amber who seems happy being an only cat and having all my attention but because of the financial situation. After being ill for so long I no longer have any savings and on £100 a week dont have chance to save so I wont take the risk. If Amber went I would miss having a cat so much but I also know that adopting a cat wouldnt be wise. I always said I would offer to 'foster' on a long term basis for a rescue and although I would pay for food, insurance and whatever vet bills I could afford I would take on an ill cat that the rescue would pay vet bills for. I realise this is maybe a situation that wouldnt happen but who knows when the time comes what my circumstances will be.
love
Tab
-
I think it only sensible and fair that people should ensure they can afford to care for their pets properly before adopting but if circumstances change and people then find themselves on benefits and relying then on places such as the PDSA I don't think they should adopt additional pets in those circumstances.
-
Oh dear this is getting heavy. I don't like thinking about this one at all, but being as truthful as I can be, if I found myself with no cat and on benefits, yes I think I would take the risk and home a cat. I would do everything I possibly could (including £5 p/mth pet insurance) to ensure that my cat was well cared for with the small amount of money I had. I would never expect a charity like PDSA to pay the cat's expenses but if push came to shove I might beg them for help.
I'd turn to family and friends first and even take in lodgers but there might come a time when I just might be tempted to approach cat charities for help. I am so very thankful I am not in that situation though.l
-
I don't think it's just about benefits so it's not as simple as 'if you're claiming benefits you shouldn't take on additional pets' and i'm certainly not saying that if you are on a low income/benefits thst you shouldn't have pets. People can choose to spend their income (whether it be from benefits, wages or a pension) on whatever the hell they like and it's better to spend it on pets than booze and fags! For me it's more about people that adopt knowing full well that they cannot afford veterinary treatment and believe they're 'entitled' to PDSA care, as I said I think the PDSA should be there as a last resort and not a first resort.
If I was in a position where I needed urgent vet care for the boys and couldn't afford it but didn't have insurance, family/friends that could help out then I would ask the PDSA for help and would be eternally grateful but I think the point is to take on extra pets knowing you can't afford it is not really fair on the charity.
-
I don't think it's just about benefits so it's not as simple as 'if you're claiming benefits you shouldn't take on additional pets' and i'm certainly not saying that if you are on a low income/benefits thst you shouldn't have pets. People can choose to spend their income (whether it be from benefits, wages or a pension) on whatever the hell they like and it's better to spend it on pets than booze and fags! For me it's more about people that adopt knowing full well that they cannot afford veterinary treatment and believe they're 'entitled' to PDSA care, as I said I think the PDSA should be there as a last resort and not a first resort.
If I was in a position where I needed urgent vet care for the boys and couldn't afford it but didn't have insurance, family/friends that could help out then I would ask the PDSA for help and would be eternally grateful but I think the point is to take on extra pets knowing you can't afford it is not really fair on the charity.
This I fully and wholeheartedly agree with. PDSA is a safety net and I do all I can to avoid using them. Luckily my two have so far been healthy apart from some tests etc for Dave's tum last year. At the moment inurance for my two is about £20 a month and I just don't have it and it makes me sick thinking about the possibility of them getting ill. I just keep going looking forward to the second I have that spare cash.
I didn't even buy a winter coat this year which I still depserately need as I got cat trees and always the best food and litter I can.
I think it's safe to say what gets to most of us are those that give no second thought to the strain charities are under and just take take take from whoever and wherever they can.
-
This I fully and wholeheartedly agree with. PDSA is a safety net and I do all I can to avoid using them. Luckily my two have so far been healthy apart from some tests etc for Dave's tum last year. At the moment inurance for my two is about £20 a month and I just don't have it and it makes me sick thinking about the possibility of them getting ill. I just keep going looking forward to the second I have that spare cash.
I didn't even buy a winter coat this year which I still depserately need as I got cat trees and always the best food and litter I can.
I think it's safe to say what gets to most of us are those that give no second thought to the strain charities are under and just take take take from whoever and wherever they can.
:hug: Lots of bittersweet anecdotes on this thread but this one particularly made me smile! Thanks to everyone for the replies so far, I feel I 'know' some of you a little better from your stories.
-
For me it's more about people that adopt knowing full well that they cannot afford veterinary treatment and believe they're 'entitled' to PDSA care, as I said I think the PDSA should be there as a last resort and not a first resort.
yep, those are my feelings too
-
Always make friends with your vets to - most will accept a pay up scheme when I just had Sweetie and Toerag my vet let me pay up any treatment with a standing order - I spent time unemployed as I have done since moving so know how good a friend the vet can be
I have to say that we aren't seeking any more new addititions to the Clan as we have the outside crew to consider to plus all the ones living on the inside and with OH working away from March its me and the cats and dogs 5 nights aweek on our own - anymore would be pushing it I think although OH said if we can get Spider he can come in if he wants - hate to tell him we have a newbie another boy lovely ginger - he was waiting for me in the garage at feeding time tonight = all nice and dry but hissy from the snow!
-
We were debating this in our office lot long ago.
I'd sell a kidney (you know what I mean) to give my boys what they needed, especially an veterinary treatment. For us we have a credit card for emergencies and I have to say I'd use that if need be, I'd never cancel their insurance though.
-
there's a big difference, in my mind, between taking in a stray which has turned up on your doorstep, even though you can't really afford it, and deliberately going out and acquiring a pet even though you couldn't pay any vet bills
and then finding it too difficult to get to the PDSA when the cat is dangerously ill, handing her over to a local rescue to pick up the pieces, and then going out and getting another kitten
-
there's a big difference, in my mind, between taking in a stray which has turned up on your doorstep, even though you can't really afford it, and deliberately going out and acquiring a pet even though you couldn't pay any vet bills
and then finding it too difficult to get to the PDSA when the cat is dangerously ill, handing her over to a local rescue to pick up the pieces, and then going out and getting another kitten
Did you post about this person?
I know Ela is aware of someone who gets kittens. Once they grow up, tries to give them to CP and then a couple of weeks later, asks for more kittens kittens. >:(
Heartless >:(
-
the story sounds familiar Mark - wasn't it someone who was on the forum a while back?
-
remember Portia?
-
remember Portia?
That's who immediately sprang to mind from your post Trigger although I'd like to think she was a fairly exceptional case and a bit of a collector too.
-
This has been an interesting discussion! I am not on benefits as such, but I am a student, I do rely on student loans and my student overdraft and I have just taken on a new cat, I also have a tortoise, a lizard and a bunny to care for. I have in the past and will in the future, go without things myself if my pets needed medicine or toys and so on...but I also live with my fiance who does work full-time, although he is not a high-earner. We are saving up to get married, but, should any of the pets need money spent on them, the wedding fund would go!
I think it does depend entirely on the person, my mum's financial situation has taken a downturn, and she has pets, but, like me, she would go without first. I think whether someone takes on a new pet whilst also on benefits depends entirely upon the person and their attitude towards their 'masters'. A lot of people who struggle financially with pets will find a way to care for them or pay for medical treatment, some though, will not bother trying to find a way to pay for their pets, will not do without themselves and will expect handouts.
I have also suffered from mental health issues in the past and have found that my pets have been such a boost for me and I couldn't imagine doing without them now.
I do not go out, occasionally have a glass of wine at home, I don't smoke, I chose to spend my money on my home and family (my family includes my fiance and all the pets we are owned by!)
A friend recently suggested to me that I could go to PDSA should Benji need any medical attention due to his FIV status, but the way I look at it, I have savings I can raid to pay for any bills and I chose to take him on, he is my responsibility and I would rather pay for his needs myself
I think anyone who believes they are 'entitled' to anything from a charity should have a deep re-think. If I was struggling I would be grateful for any help I could get, but would not believe I was entitled to it, if that makes sense?
-
I think anyone who believes they are 'entitled' to anything from a charity should have a deep re-think. If I was struggling I would be grateful for any help I could get, but would not believe I was entitled to it, if that makes sense?
That is exactly how I feel. I have a friend who had to take her cat to the rspca hospital as she hadnt got any money to feed herself and the cat was poorly. Normally Lizzy is insured but because of problems in her home she hadnt been able to renew it. Thats fine by me and it is something I would consider if for some reason I didnt have or was unable to borrow the money I needed but I wouldnt feel I was entitled to it because im on benefits
love
Tab
-
People fall on hard times - I've ended up on benefits occasionally because of the seasonal nature of my work myself - but the furball food and insurance was always budgetted for (often ahead of my own food if I'm honest).
On the other hand I've got a relative who has cats out of the wazoo, feeds them really cruddy quality pet food, has none of them insured and just shrugs her shoulders that she'll "take them down the PDSA if they get sick cos I'm entitled to do that." Said relative hasn't done a day's work in her life, has no intention of ever doing so - the cats are pretty much left to their own devices and since she's just had a kid - I'm strongly suspecting the moggy army will be getting the heave-ho sooner or later knowing her fads like I do. People like her - no I don't think they should be allowed more pets - especially since she's up to something like 5 cats in a third floor flat, and she has no intention of ever paying more than a token penny or two for vet treatment - she sees getting this for a pittance as her "right".
-
I got a new kitten when on JSA - a friend of a friend's cat had kittens and was giving them away. This was in addition to an adult cat that my bf has had for years.
I don't think it's unfair; I've always made sure there's enough food to last them because although I don't mind eating 4p noodles 10 times a day, it's not the cats' fault we don't have money. They've never been spoiled, mostly eating Tesco's own brand cat food because I don't really believe in buying them expensive stuff (they see Whiskas as a treat), no offence to anyone who buys their cats expensive food :) my grandad lived in a village and had a cat that lived on leftovers and whatever mice he caught himself and was completely fine throughout his long life!
-
Always make friends with your vets too - most will accept a pay up scheme.....
Agree entirely. I have been known to be a bit cheeky and take in half the money and a cheque dated for the next time I get paid. The vets are really good about it now because they've know I'd not do anything to make them mistrust me - I care about my animals too much and need their services. ;)
-
I think the title says it all really- would you even be considering having another pet if you are on benefits, no most people on benefits just go out and get a pet without any thought :tired:
Without any thought of the price of the pets welfare needs Im meaning :)
-
I think the title says it all really- would you even be considering having another pet if you are on benefits, no most people on benefits just go out and get a pet without any thought :tired:
Without any thought of the price of the pets welfare needs Im meaning :)
I disagree - I got a new kitten when I was on benefits and already had one cat and I thought plenty about whether I would be able to afford it, take it to the vet etc. So I'm quite offended by the idea that I didn't think it through.
-
I think what CC's saying is that the person that started the post isn't in that criteria. They're thinking about how tight things will be financially and whether they can viably cope with the extra cost. She's not generalising that all people on benefits are irresponsible. ;)
-
I am definitely not contemplating a second mogster, there would be paw wars! :auc14: I apologise for the title it was difficult to say what I wanted in such a short space, with the benefit of hindsight it's not my best effort. :-[
-
I think the title says it all really- would you even be considering having another pet if you are on benefits, no most people on benefits just go out and get a pet without any thought :tired:
Without any thought of the price of the pets welfare needs Im meaning :)
I'd be very careful about generalisations here. In the current market there are a lot of responsible people on benefits at the moment. Would you also stop people on state pensions having a pet or second pet?
-
I think what CC's saying is that the person that started the post isn't in that criteria. They're thinking about how tight things will be financially and whether they can viably cope with the extra cost. She's not generalising that all people on benefits are irresponsible. ;)
Pudding....see this post. ;)