My sister's kitties

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Right! I've spoken to her again! The reason she gave me this time was that she is doing loads of work to her house and won't be able to afford it, but would get them done before Christmas.

You see, I really don't get that excuse reason.  It will cost her more to raise a litter of kittens than it will to get her cats neutered.  Even if she just gets one done now and the other after christmas.  Raising a litter of kittens isn't just a case of leaving them with mum and then giving them away as soon as they can eat solids and use the litter tray.  If you can catch her in a good mood, try to sit her down and explain that if cost is the issue, that's all the more reason to get at least one of them done before Ruby gets pregnant.  And she will get pregnant if she isn't already.  It's all very well her saying she will separate them if/when Ruby goes into heat, but it might be too late by the time she realises Ruby is in heat, and a male cat who is aware of a female in heat nearby is a great escape artist.

[Lindsey (thefunkyinuit)]

Lindsey, if she calls the Cats Protection headquarters and tells them she needs an assistance with spaying costs voucher for the cats they'll send her them. There's no rules applied to who is given the vouchers because all that really matters is getting people to be responsible in that area. (Or that's why I assume there's no rules anyway. )

It's frustrating when people you know don't listen to things you know to be right because you've taken time to look into it.

Do you think I would be able to apply for the vouchers on her behalf? If I can get the vouchers, i'll even make the appointments and take them to the vets myself (as long as she pays the rest of the money because I'm well and truly skint!) Just think she might keep meaning to get the vouchers but never get around to it. 

[JackSpratt]

Lindsey, if she calls the Cats Protection headquarters and tells them she needs an assistance with spaying costs voucher for the cats they'll send her them. There's no rules applied to who is given the vouchers because all that really matters is getting people to be responsible in that area. (Or that's why I assume there's no rules anyway. )

It's frustrating when people you know don't listen to things you know to be right because you've taken time to look into it.

[Lindsey (thefunkyinuit)]

Right! I've spoken to her again! The reason she gave me this time was that she is doing loads of work to her house and won't be able to afford it, but would get them done before Christmas. I said her babies should come first and she said that they we're ok and not in dire need.....I was talking to her on facebook chat and before I had a chance to respond, she logged off...SO I sent her a message...I put in the subject matter - 'Please read this then i'll stop nagging you!' I copied and pasted the article about mammary cancer and pyometra (Ruby is coming up to 2 1/2 soon) and wrote this -

'Just suggesting getting Ruby done sooner rather than later at the least. Not sure how much spaying costs (its more than castration) but it is defo less than £100, Yookee's neutering cost about £30. Also, you can get vouchers from Cats Protection League to help with the cost. Also, whats the point of doing up your house all nice when its just gonna stink of cat wee when Azzy starts spraying?! xxx'

Lets hope she gets the message now, if not and she comes up with another excuse, it can't be anything that I can't throw a counter arguement at now!

I also just spoke to my mum about it and she agrees with me (I phoned to ask how much it was to get her boy done as she had him castrated last week)
She also mentioned that she was MAYBE thinking of building a big shed/pen in the garden (her garden is huge) as she would like to become a fosterer! So once i've won the battle with getting my sister's kitties neutered, thats my next project! 

[Lindsey (thefunkyinuit)]

Thanks for the advice everyone

I have told her about about many kittens and cats need homes and i've also used the health angle.
The legal aspect is not an issue as the breeder is a family member anyway so it was just a paperwork thing i think.
(theres other issues with it too which I can't go in to)

Ruby came from one breeder, claiming she was a Maine Coon but it turns out she is only half Maine Coon so she wouldn't be able to sell them as Pedigrees anyway. Azzy came from my cousin who is a breeder and is full pedigree and was sold on the non active register.

I do think she may want the opportunity to raise kittens, now you mention it, thats basically what I meant with 'the cuteness factor'.

I haven't spoken to her about it in detail again but I did mention it briefly yesterday. I asked when she was getting them done and she shrugged and changed the subject.....I pushed it and said 'what if they have kittens?' and she said, 'well Ruby isn't in heat at the moment and if she does go into heat, I will keep them in separate rooms' I said that that wasn't very fair and then she said that she had too many other things on her mind. I said 'what things?' and she said the house and decorating! I shuck my head at her and left it at that. I WILL keep on at her though, don't worry about that!

She is being really weird about it and really doesn't seem to like me bringing up the issue and never seems to give me eye contact when we do talk about it. At the back of my mind I'm wondering if she is scared about getting them done. I know its perfectly safe if they are in good health but after his neutering, her first kitten Louie became very timid and only a few months later, died from suspected hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and in a way I think she blames the anesthetic for aggravating it. She was so devastated when he died as he was so young and it was so sudden, I think it has really frightened her and she doesn't want to have them put under anesthetic. She hasn't told me this but I just have a gut feeling.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

You know your sister best so will know which approach might work best with her.  You coudl try any combination of the following approaches.

1.  You could try to open her eyes to the number of abandoned cats and kittens and point out that even if she can rehome kittens, the people who take them could have adopted a homeless cat insead.  Play on the guilt factor.

2.  You could play up the legal aspect.  Although in reality it's unlikely a breeder would take legal action against her, she would be in breach of contract if she bred from a cat that should not be bred from and signed a contract saying she would not breed.  You don't say whether her cats are pedigree or rescues, but if the former and they are on the non active register then any offspring cannot be registered and would not officially be pedigree cats.  Any responsible breeder will sell most kittens on the non active register and only sell cats suitable for breeding to those who have proved themselves with the breed and/or are known to the breeder.  But there could be all sorts of reasons why her cat is just not suitable for breeding.  There may be health issues in the line that make her unsuitable.  If the latter, then the rescue would take a pretty dim view of her letting her cat have kittens after she signed a contract saying she would neuter them.

3.  Health angle.  Not being spayed puts a cat at increased risk of mammary cancer and pyometra.  Perhaps you could print off the article below to show her.  Pregnancy also carry risk and cats do die during and after birth.  There can also be a lot of emotional heartbread if any of the kittens die.

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,4788.msg0.html#new

4.  Financial angle.  If she's a great cat owner in general, point out that pregnancy can be expensive, especially if there are complications.  She will need to buy extra food for her cat during pregnancy plus extra food and litter for the kittens.  She will need to be prepared to keep the cats until they are about 12 weeks old and pay for them to be wormed, de-flead and for them all to be vaccinated before they are rehomed.  Then she will need to think about how she is going to make sure those who rehome the kittens neuter them when old enough.  One litter can result in hundreds and thousands of kittens down the line if the first litter isn't neutered and even just one or 2 go on to have kittens of their own.

Good luck!  You could talk to her about fostering too if she just wants the opportunity to raise kittens

[Guest]

Sorry if I appear harsh and I know you are doing all you can. But several things about your sisters attitude in this are really wrong. Please do whatever you can to get her to see sense!

[Guest]

Why don't you log into several of the members rescue centres and sit her down in front of a PC and explain why her cats have kittens is a bad idea. Get her to look at the picture of cats that no longer have homes and how overrun these places are.

I know it is not you saying it but the term  "wants them for the cuteness factor" makes me want to go and find a wall and bang my head against in it. I am sure that is why most 2-5 year old cats are sitting in a rescue centres surpluss to requirements. Her saying ""If they do they do" are not the words of a responsible owner, I am sorry!


After Ella and Effie had their first set of jabs, the vet gave us a a date for them to be done. It was a Wednesday and on the Monday Ella hit season. I would pot out any cat needlessly through that over and over again. The cat doesn't know what to do with themself in that period. Effie was was still a "calling virgin" was blissfully unaware of what was happened and Ella was trying to have sex with HER! And your sister has a male and female in the house together!??


I know you are doing all you can for her but sorry I would be making the appointments and saying enough is enough. She could rehome every single kitten for free but that still isn't good enough. If someone REALLY wants a kitten or a cat they aren't just waiting for a friend of a friends cat to have one by chance. They go and get one and hopefully go to a rescue centre.If they are just getting it cos it is cute then well... grrrr..

If your sister keeps one that will be 3 unneutered in the house at some point. Let the inbreeding begin!

PLEASE whatever it takes get her to have these cats done for their health, happiness and for her to be a responsible owner.

Sorry I am ranting and that is wrong but I feel so very strongly!   

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Always difficult with relatives. 

What's going to happen when Azzy's breeder finds out he's not been done and is living with a full queen? Could your sister be at risk of legal action? 

I'd be amazed if the queen isn't already pregnant. If she isn't, I'd be worrying about Chlamydia or some other disease. What was the reason behind the no breeding clause? Perhaps the breeder knows he is carrying something? Sadly I've seen it a few times in feral colonies. A full queen living in the wild who isn't constantly pregnant can often be suffering from uterus disease. I've had to have a few PTS because of that. 

[Lindsey (thefunkyinuit)]

My sister now has two cats, Ruby is around 2 years old and Azzy is about 9 months.
Although they are indoor cats and only have occasional supervised play in an enclosed yard, before she got Azzy, I told her she should get Ruby neutured in case she ever got out and also for general health reasons. It never happened. 
Then, she got Azzy and I obviously pushed the issue again as he is male! She said she would get them both neutered when she got back from her holiday to Australia (that was march!) As my mum had her Kitty neutered yesterday, I mentioned it again and all she said was ''i'll get them done soon'' 
I know Azzy has already had a hold of Ruby on a few occasions so i'm surprised she isn't pregnant already!
I asked her ''what happens if she gets pregnant?'' and she said, ''If she does, she does'' I know she actually wants them to have kittens, she told me herself ages ago......I don't actually know why, Its not because she could sell them as she signed a contract not to because Azzy was sold not to be bred with....I think she just wants them because of the cuteness factor. She said she would keep one and my mum would have one but I had a bit of a go at her yesterday saying that if they have kittens, she will have to rehome them and that rescues are already fit to burst with kittens and cats looking for homes...she just kind of shrugged and avoided answering me.
She's a great cat owner in any other way, they are very well looked after e.t.c I just feel that she's being selfish and completley ignoring my comments!