I think my cat is sad.

[Millys Mum]

Initially kittens are happy to be bossed but they too grow up into adult cats with their own minds, as kitten grows up it can go either way 1) it accepts its place in the chain and gets on with being bossed or 2) it decides to challenge resident cat and you end up with problems.
Spook is a dominant cat who probably isnt actually going to enjoy sharing her possessions with another cat be it her own kitten or a stranger. Half her problem is shes a hormonal grump who has desperate urges to find a mate but cant because shes a house cat, she wanders about frustrated because she only has one thing on her mind and its not playing with a ping pong ball!

[mallory]

all cats will accept their offspring when they are older and this is especially true if you keep a male kitten. Some people on here have had success with it, but all my foster cats were happy to see the backs of their babies

Interesting comment. I'm only going on what I know of my sister's cat growing up. We kept one of her kittens, a male, and they got on really well. Miss Kitty was a very tolerant mother, and didn't wean Grey until he was about 4 months old. She was a very motherly cat, though. Before she had kittens she used to spend a lot of time pinning down our other cat, and giving him a bath. She would also 'adopt' toys and treat them like kittens.

I think that Spook may be lonely. At the moment, the only cat company she gets is when I take her over to visit my mum, where she plays with my mums cat Zan. She really seems to have a lot of fun playing with him, though she does insist that it's her house (it's not) and she is the boss (though he's twice her size). This involves jumping on Zan and pouncing on his tail. If he gets too uppity, she will chase him out the cat-door (he's an outside cat, she's an inside-only cat) and stand guard, wacking him on the nose if he tries to come back in. Mostly they do get on, and he will come and look for her if she goes off for a sleep, and when I shut her upstairs to give him some peace, he'll come and meow outside the door until I let her out, so I think he doesn't mind her too much. Spook's a bit funny, because she usually doesn't mind him eating her food, or playing with her toys, but if I get out her treats, she'll chase him out of the room. Last time we went over, I took her new Da Bird, and she wouldn't let him play with it at all - she'd hiss at him whenever he tried to come close.  Later, my mother borrowed it to see if Zan would like playing with it, he did - until Spook came in, and roughed him up.   

[JackSpratt]

Mallory, I really didn't mean it in a judgemental way. I've been using this site since it opened two years ago and the fact of the matter is that there's been a population explosion with so many cats needing homes and not having homes to go to. Sorry if I offended you.

There are valid points made about about the health risks, though.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

Saying that I shouldn't let Spook have kittens because there are somewhere adult cats and kittens needing homes is a bit beside the point, and, I think, a little judgemental. Letting your cat have repeated litters you can't care for or home is irresponsible, making a carefully thought out decision whether to have one litter of kittens you can care for, and can easily find homes for, in my view, is not.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but there are no good reasons for breeding and adding to an already out of control problem.  Every day thousands of healthy animals are pts through sheer ignorance of people wanting their pets to have a first litter or merely because they can't be bothered getting them done, for every kitten/puppy born, another will die somewhere in a rescue because sadly there isn't any room.

[Dawn F]

Mollory this is a site set up for the support of people in rescue - you really can't expect people who see what happens to the thousands of unwanted animals that once were kittens to welcome another litter into the world.  there is another thread running somewhere giving numbers of animals put to sleep every year just because there isn't a home for them, I'm sure you wouldn't want this to happen to any kittens spook may have once you have sold them on

[Desley (booktigger)]

As I said, not all cats will accept their offspring when they are older and this is especially true if you keep a male kitten. Some people on here have had success with it, but all my foster cats were happy to see the backs of their babies. Also, a single kitten tends to annoy mum by being too playful and boisterous, they do much better with a sibling, but 3 cats might be too much and could cause more problems if she doesn't tolerate them. Does she show any signs of wanting to have a friend, as quite often people get a second cat for them, not their cat, and they would quite happily live on their own. Her leg is also a big issue, as if it is a genetic thing, she could pass it on, and if not, you could end up with a kitten that can do things she can't, which might make the relationship a bit uneven and cause problems.

[mallory]

Having read the comments on the health risks, I'll certainly consult Spook's vet before I make a decision. 

Thats so not true, until you rescue and rehome adult cats you wont see how well and how quickly they fit into their new homes.

What makes you think I haven't?

My family rehomed two adult cats while I was growing up, and that's where I've formed my opinions. I'm sure some cats are more adaptable than others, but my personal experience makes me wary of adopting an adult cat. The first adult cat we adopted, I believe may have been a former stray. He was very stand-offish, and would bite anyone who touched him. We had him two years until he was hit by a car, and while he became somewhat companionable in that time, and would sit beside you to keep you company, he never liked to be picked up or stroked. Anyone outside the family would be bitten or scratched if they got too close. 

The second adoptee was more tragic. Toya was a lovely cat, whose owners has moved overseas and left her behind. She seemed to settle in well, but once we started letting her out, she imediately disappeared. She was found by the new owners of her old house - somehow she'd found her way home 40 miles across a 6-lane motorway.  We retrieved her.  Keeping her inside full time was not an option, as there were other cats, and young children. The second time she went home, we asked if the new owners could adopt her - they couldn't. The third time, we tried to trace Toya's former owners, but couldn't reach them.  After we had had her 7 months, she disappeared (5th time) and never showed up at her old home. We assume she was killed on the road. I think Toya was a one-family cat, and just wanted to find her people again.

Some adult cats are great. I know people who have rehomed adult cats with no problems. Others have significant problems, and while that doesn't mean they don't deserve another chance at a loving home, it does mean that they are not ideal pets for some households.  Sadly, it can be difficult to tell if an adult cat will be able to adjust to a new home or not. After our first experience, we looked for an affectionate cat used to children and other pets, and got Toya.

You can't pick a kitten's personality, but you do have the oportunity to socialise it, train it, and bond with it, when it's most receptive.  Kitten's aren't going to be everyone's first choice either - some people find them too lively, or want a more independant cat right from the start. 

In Spook's case, I think it would be problematic to introduce another adult cat. She's very dominant, and would need to have a laid-back companion that was happy for her to be top cat. A kitten would probrably be adaptable, and used to being bossed by mother cat - an older cat, if it also wanted to be 'boss', would mean constant fights.

Everyone's entitled to their own preference in forming a relationship with a pet - ideally, it's a relationship that will last the cat's whole life.  While I'd happily adopt a kitten from a shelter, I've found that it isn't easy - there's a lot of red tape, and I've been told at various times that I need to go on a waiting list, can't have a cat in a rental property, can't adopt from outside my 'district', have to have a home visit, can't have an inside cat, can't adopt 'just one' - must take two, and can't properly care for a pet because I'm disabled.  Different shelters have different rules, but all of them seem to have a lot of red tape.

I am interested to get peoples input on whether and how to provide a companion for Spook. Saying that I shouldn't let Spook have kittens because there are somewhere adult cats and kittens needing homes is a bit beside the point, and, I think, a little judgemental. Letting your cat have repeated litters you can't care for or home is irresponsible, making a carefully thought out decision whether to have one litter of kittens you can care for, and can easily find homes for, in my view, is not.

[JackSpratt]

Maybe some rescues should reconsider how far away they'll rehome cats and kittens from where they're based then. Sorry Mallory, but I tend to agree with regards to the "one litter" idea. There are always cats and kittens needing homes; even if you have to travel a little way to get them.

Don't know if any of these tips are any good:

http://www.critterchatter.com/topics/cats/boredCat.html

[Millys Mum]

The older a cat is, the more likely it is to have trouble adapting to new environments and new people. 

Thats so not true, until you rescue and rehome adult cats you wont see how well and how quickly they fit into their new homes.

Letting your cat get had by the local tom is bad enough but to do so when future kittens can inherit a genetic flaw is even worse, whos to say they wont need operations that their loving owners wont pay for but just dump said cat onto a rescue, cant get much more irresponsible.
Club foot is something that Spook could have been treated for as a newborn had her 'breeder' given a damm about her

[Desley (booktigger)]

With Spooks age, kittens would have been hard to come by, as it was very early in kitten season, we only had 2 at that time, as Feb is normally too cold for cats to be breeding.

I certainly would suggest adult cats, and not all cats have issues - I fostered a 17yo last year who fitted in the house within days, and some of the strays I have picked up have clearly had a hard life yet settle down incredibly well - some are only suitable to a certain life (i.e. no cats, no kids - I have one of them), but not all of them - the last one to leave me had a love hate relationship with kids before being dumped on the street, but once with me, she was great with them.

I still feel that even if kittens are hard to get, it isn't worth risking Spooks health for.

[Christine (Blip)]

Blip was relinquished to a rescue when she was one year old, i.e. no longer the cute little kitten she'd been when acquired but an adult cat with a distinctive personality, which clearly was incompatible with the home she'd been brought up in.

I'd say it's less of a risk, in terms of long-term relationships, to adopt an adult cat whose personality is formed and is known.

[ems]

I'm sure that you will suggest such people adopt adult cats instead, but this is not always suitable - adult cats in shelters are often former strays, bereaved or abandoned cats, or have behavioural problems that affect their ability to bond with a new family.  Others are unused to children, or need to be the only pet.  Just because there are adult cats available, doesn't mean that they will be the right match for a home.  The first year of a cats life is key in establishing socialisation, training, and relationships. The older a cat is, the more likely it is to have trouble adapting to new environments and new people. 

Sorry Mallory but a kitten may not necessarily fit into a household either. And what happens then? They are given to a recue centre to rehome again? I have 2 older cats both from different rescues and also a rescue dog. (As have many others on this forum) None of these have behavioural problems or have had problems bonding with our family.

I'm afraid I don't see the difference between somebody paying for a kitten in a pet shop and paying you for one. Breeding for money is the same either way IMO.

[Dawn F]

kittens grow into adult cats with personalities as well and can have all of the same issues you mention

[mallory]

Despite what you hear about excess kittens, kittens seem to be very hard to get hold of in my area. 


not really sure why that is considered to be a bad thing??????

Because people are having to travel long distances and pay hundreds of pounds to get kittens, and some are resorting to getting them from petshops.  My mother, who purchased Spook as a gift for me, travelled 150 miles to buy her, and paid over £200. And Spook is a moggy, not a pedigree or recognised breed.
My neighbours were on the waiting list to adopt a kitten for 8 months - they were told by the shelters that though other areas had kittens, they couldn't adopt from a shelter outside their area.  They gave up and bought two kittens from a petshop.

I'm sure that you will suggest such people adopt adult cats instead, but this is not always suitable - adult cats in shelters are often former strays, bereaved or abandoned cats, or have behavioural problems that affect their ability to bond with a new family.  Others are unused to children, or need to be the only pet.  Just because there are adult cats available, doesn't mean that they will be the right match for a home.  The first year of a cats life is key in establishing socialisation, training, and relationships. The older a cat is, the more likely it is to have trouble adapting to new environments and new people. 

[Dawn F]

Despite what you hear about excess kittens, kittens seem to be very hard to get hold of in my area.  [/quote]


not really sure why that is considered to be a bad thing??????

[Christine (Blip)]

Just to back up Desley's sound advice, Mallory.

And apart from the severe health risks to Spook, cat rescues across the country are filled with adult cats who were cute little kittens once but who have been abandoned when they grew up.  I would ask you to reconsider, for all these reasons.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Mallory, please reconsider letting her have one litter - even if there isn't an excess of kittens in your area (there isn't anywhere at the moment as it is the end of kitten season) - due to her disability, you could be risking her health letting her carry a litter of kittens, and depending on how she got the disability, potentially risking her passing it on to offspring. Also, there are no guarantees that she will accept one of her own babies, they do often push them away once they hit sexual maturity.
ETA - I have just noticed how old she is, the more times a cat comes into heat without being bred, teh more at risk they are of something called pyometra, which is a womb infection and can be fatal - while it normally affects cats 2yo plus, I have heard of quite a few younger than that that have nearly died due to this nasty disease. Also, for every unbred heat, you are risking mammary cancer later in life and it is a very aggressive cancer. And one more thing - no breeder will let you use one of their studs, so if you dont have a full history of the male, you could be putting her at risk of various illnesses such as FIV and FeLV, which aren't curable or treatable.

[mallory]

Wow Andy, that looks like fun! Not for Spook though - she doesn't climb or jump as well as most cats, as one of her rear legs is shorter and has a clubbed paw.  She gets around very well, but she can't really jump higher than onto a chair or the bed - sometimes she wants to go higher, and hauls herself up with her front paws - it looks really funny.  Due to the smallness of the apartment, there's not enough room for a major climbing thing for her - I did have one of those cat-tree things, but the little madam wouldn't use it. She likes to sit on the table in front of the window, so she can watch the traffic, and keep an eye on me at the same time.  Otherwise, she likes the bathroom windowsill - she climbs from the side of the bath to the hand basin, then pulls herself up onto the windowsill. If I leave the top half of the window open a little way, she'll pull herself up, and balance on the edge of the window so she can stick her head outside.

I think there's a refill pack for Da Bird that includes the mousie attachment, so I might get that for her if she stays interested in Da Bird.

I'm not planning to get Spook spayed right away. When she's old enough, I'm considering breeding her. Despite what you hear about excess kittens, kittens seem to be very hard to get hold of in my area.  My mum had to travel 120 miles, and pay £225 to get Spook - and she's just a moggy, not a pedigree or specific breed. 
If I move to a larger apartment, I'll probrably breed Spook, and keep one of the kittens. Integrating an unrelated cat into the house would be difficult, as Spook likes to be boss. When we go to visit my mum, she bosses Zan, my mum's cat, who is twice her size, and takes over the house. Fortunately he's really easygoing, and doesn't seem to mind - if I shut her in my room to give him some peace, he'll come and wait outside the door for me to let her out again. If I got another cat that was dominant, they would probrably fight, and Spook would get upset. If it was her baby, it would probrably grow up being used to being bossed around by her.

[Janeyk]

Pleased Spook loves her new toy 

  Love the pics Andy your cat looks to be having loads of fun!

[Christine (Blip)]

I'd get Spook spayed as soon as you can, too, Mallory.  Then you'll have a much happier cat on your hands 

[andyturner]

Hi Mallory,

If you have room, I got a set of shelves from Ikea for 16 euros (they are called Gorm - not in thier catalog or advertised) and modified them a bit. Judo loves it 
Here are a couple of pics, let me know if you need any more pics or info.

Best regards
Andy

[Tiggy's Mum]

Update:

'Da Bird' arrived today. Many thanks for the recommendation - Spook loves it. Chasing it involces much hissing and huffing and growling, and when she catches it, she proudly trots off with it, growling at me when I try to take it off her.  I foresee that I will need to buy that refill pack.

There's something magical about the 'da....' range of toys.  If she likes da bird you should try da mouse, my boys go even wilder for Mr Mousey 

[Christine (Blip)]

Update:

'Da Bird' arrived today. Many thanks for the recommendation - Spook loves it. Chasing it involces much hissing and huffing and growling, and when she catches it, she proudly trots off with it, growling at me when I try to take it off her.  I foresee that I will need to buy that refill pack.

Oh, that's briiliant Mallory    I'm glad Spook loves Da Bird!

[mallory]

Update:

'Da Bird' arrived today. Many thanks for the recommendation - Spook loves it. Chasing it involces much hissing and huffing and growling, and when she catches it, she proudly trots off with it, growling at me when I try to take it off her.  I foresee that I will need to buy that refill pack.

[Janeyk]

Poor kitty, I agree though, a playmate would probably be a good idea she may want the co of other cats

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I second da bird and also suggest a laser toy.  you may need to be inventive with toys and try moving them around.  eg cardboard boxes make great toys but they will get bored with them if they are in the same place all the time.  Try moving them to different places and see if that re-ignites interest in them.  Has she got a cat tent?  Ikea do a great one for £4.99.  My cats love it.

How big is your flat?  I can't imagine it's much smaller than mine (one bed flat) and I have 2 cats.  at 9 months old, she would probably accept another cat of the same age and having another kitten to play with would probably help a lot.

[Millys Mum]

  I think she's bored or sad - she often walks around meowing.

Has she been spayed?

[Christine (Blip)]

There are five sets of ticklers in our auction (in aid of Paws Inn Cat Rescue, on now) if you're interested in bidding on any of them for Spook.

I'm sure she'll like Da Bird - let us know!

[mallory]

Thanks for the Da Bird suggestion - I will buy it. Early christmas present to Spook. I think she will like it, as her favorite toy at the moment is a cat tickler (bunch of feathers on the end of a wand) this looks like an advance on that.  Ping pong balls are on the list (the long, long, list) of toys Spook does not like. 

The list of toys she does like is:
1) cat tickler
2) her threadbare, suffing-pulled-out ladybug toy. (Other identical replacement ladybug toys are on the list of toys she does not like and will not touch).
3) my shoes

The list of toys she would like to play with (if only the mean selfish person living in her flat would let her):
1) Live snake (yes, seriously - it's 5 foot long, and not a kitty-toy)
2) Toes
3) The toilet paper
4) A box of weetbix
5) Pot plants (pot plants fall down and go boom)
6) Raw eggs (yes, she discovered that she could climb up on the bench, remove the eggs from the egg rack, and roll them off the bench to go splat. When the eggs were put in the fridge and the rack filled with ping pong balls, this game was no longer fun).
7) Cotton wool (I'm sure cats aren't meant to eat that)
plastic bags
9) Electric cords. Until someone rubs soap on them.

Sigh.

It really is a very small apartment - I thought it was too small for even one cat, but Spook was a gift from my mother.  Delightfully, Spook absolutely hates my mother, for no apparent reason.

I love Spook dearly, but she can be a brat. Scratching posts and pads, cat beds, cat platform/climbing towers... buy it, and she will not touch it. She much prefers to lay claim to something inappropriate for the purpose. Her 'cat bed' is my leather backpack, buckles and all. Her 'scratching pad' is the seagrass floor-mat, her 'cat tower' is the bathroom shelf where I used to keep my toiletries.  Once she decides what she wants, she will accept no substitutes.  


I may have to move to a larger apartment, so I have room for another cat.  

[Gatos]

Buying a toy and leaving it for the cat to play with doesn't work - you have to use your imagination and make the toy move in a way that the cat finds irresistible.  If you can, spend some time pulling things around on a string, behind / under furniture and your cat will love it!

[swampmaxmum]

are you really really sure that it's too small for another cat? Assuming they get on of course, there's just nothing like another cat to play with to stop stress, loneliness or depression.  They play cat games with each other in a way that even hours of you playing with her won't make up for, then of course there's sleeping all curled up together. Otherwise I agree with the fans of da Bird, but hide anything valuable beforehand!

[Sam (Fussy_Furball)]

Ping pong balls are also excellent cat toys 

[Christine (Blip)]

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/catalog/da-bird-uk-original-gocat-da-bird-interactive-cat-toy-p-38.html?myosCsid=k1kokevsgvpcn3q16h2tp9k296

[Christine (Blip)]

Da Bird - available from the Purrs shop - is pretty well irresistable.  Blip isn't one for toys either, having spent her formative months in a communal pen  , but she adores Da Bird.

[Dawn F]

does she eat dry food?  you can hide it in screwed up bits of paper and make her find it

[mallory]

My cat Spook is 9 months old, and we live in a small apartment (too small for a 2nd cat).  I think she's bored or sad - she often walks around meowing. What can I do to make her life happier and more interesting?

The only things she seems to want to do are things I can't let her, like climb into the vivarium to play with my pet snake, or chew on plastic bags. If I buy or make a toy she won't touch it, and while I'm asleep, she tips over the waste-paper basket, and hides the trash under the counch, and then ignores it. She refuses to play with most cat toys - there are only two toys she likes, and I think she's a bit bored with them.  I've tried playing with her, and she'll play for a few minutes, but then she gets annoyed, and just takes the toy (or straw, or feather, or whatever) and hides it somewhere.  She used to like to chase balls of paper or tin-foil, but now she just takes them and posts them in behind the bookshelf (yes, I'm sure it's on purpose, she has to lift them up above the height of the baseboard). 

She doesn't like cat-nip, and doesn't have patience for the toys with treats in - she just gets frustrated, and ignores the toy.

Any suggestions, please?